00:00:00 Leah
Hi friends join us as we dive into the themes, metaphors, and foreshadowing of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
00:00:06 Leah
We are your hosts, Leah, Sarah, Tabby, and whether you're a new viewer or a longtime fan.
00:00:12 Leah
Welcome to becoming Buffy.
00:00:28 Sarah
Hey, guys.
00:00:29 Sarah
Welcome back to becoming Buffy.
00:00:31 Sarah
Today we are talking about season four, Episode 15, this year's girl and I got to say, I have been looking forward to this arc for pretty much.
00:00:42 Sarah
Since season three, I love that this episode brings back faith, but I also love that I mean slight spoilers, but I mean, you're going to figure it out anyway.
00:00:51 Sarah
This starts a really cool crossover series between Buffy and Angel.
00:00:57 Sarah
This starts about like a four to five episode arc that is just phenomenal, and it's one of my favorites.
00:01:04 Sarah
Yeah, there's just a lot to talk about and we always really struggle with like the first part of a two-part episode.
00:01:10 Sarah
But I feel like there's so much in this episode, and it really keeps moving, even though it's setting up so many other things.
00:01:16 Sarah
There's just so much to talk about.
00:01:17 Sarah
So what?
00:01:17 Sarah
Did you guys think of it?
00:01:20 Leah
This is an episode that like.
00:01:22 Leah
The first time I watched through.
00:01:24 Leah
The show I didn't make it to season four because Angel left and I went through my.
00:01:29 Leah
And then the second time I watched it through, yeah, for all the second time I watched it through, I was like, Oh my gosh, bro, I was.
00:01:31 Sarah
Your episode of grief.
00:01:37 Leah
Like this sex?
00:01:39 Leah
Like I hate Season 4 Riley sex.
00:01:43 Leah
And then I got to this episode and I was like, this is the show.
00:01:47 Leah
That I remember like this is the show I liked and it's not because buff our faith is back like which I mean, yes, I love having faith back.
00:01:55 Leah
It actually felt like it was about Buffy and so much of this season hasn't been about Buffy, and so I just remember being like, dude like, that is, this is what I've been missing.
00:02:10 Leah
And also like, I think everyone here knows, like, I'm not the the absolute.
00:02:15 Leah
Biggest Angel, the show fan.
00:02:20 Leah
I absolutely recommend to anyone who hasn't seen the show Angel who doesn't plan on seeing the show Angel.
00:02:28 Leah
Please watch the crossover faith episodes if nothing else.
00:02:33 Leah
In Angel, you need to watch the the cost of the faith episodes.
00:02:37 Leah
They are some of the best, like Buffy universe episodes in general, but they're so pivotal for so many characters from the Buffy universe.
00:02:48 Leah
That I absolutely recommend them. They're so, so, so good. And obviously, check out Sarah's other podcasts, because I'm sure they're going to do a great job talking about them. But yeah, we'll plug for you, Sarah.
00:02:58 Sarah
Mostly because you know you guys are coming.
00:03:00 Sarah
You guys are coming on for one of those episodes.
00:03:02 Sarah
That's probably why it's gonna be so good.
00:03:03 Leah
I completely forgot about that.
00:03:04
But that is.
00:03:05 Leah
A good point.
00:03:07 Leah
I was saying, like in general, they're they're just top notch episodes.
00:03:11 Leah
They really, really are.
00:03:13 Tabby
All those two, and I will remember you are must watches.
00:03:15 Leah
Yes. Oh my gosh, yes.
00:03:17 Leah
But I feel like I will remember you.
00:03:19 Leah
A lot of people do already end up watching it, cause like Buffy and an Angel.
00:03:22 Leah
Felt like.
00:03:23 Leah
And I think.
00:03:23 Leah
That these episodes with faith kind of get put on the back burner.
00:03:28 Leah
I'm telling you, freaking checking out.
00:03:30 Leah
They're so good.
00:03:32 Leah
Oh my gosh.
00:03:33 Sarah
I will say so.
00:03:34 Sarah
While I was like looking through and reading reviews, remember how we talked about in the last episode.
00:03:39 Sarah
It was goodbye Iowa, one of our biggest critiques.
00:03:43 Sarah
One of my biggest critiques of this season and of that episode in particular.
00:03:47 Sarah
That making Riley the emotional crux, the emotional center of this season was one of the worst mistakes that they could have done, and they did that through killing off Maggie Walsh and through kind of centering Riley as the the person who now is going to be the emotional core of.
00:04:07 Sarah
The big bad, like we talked about every big bad is related with Buffy up until this season.
00:04:11 Sarah
Now it's like Riley and that's a huge problem.
00:04:14 Sarah
This episode right here and the next one is.
00:04:17 Sarah
Death bringing faith back allows the show to once again center Buffy as Leah just said, Buffy is now a little bit more the emotional center.
00:04:27 Sarah
Maybe not with Adam, but we're able to still kind of see how Buffy is at the core of all of this.
00:04:32 Sarah
And so I'm a huge fan of this, if for nothing else, you know.
00:04:36 Leah
Not to mention I feel like a lot of times when shows bring back like an old character from like previous seasons, like a cameo or whatever.
00:04:47 Leah
Sometimes it really feels like to me like, OK, you were struggling this season like.
00:04:52 Tabby
Sure. Right.
00:04:52 Leah
You needed. You needed.
00:04:54 Leah
To views and you brought back a fan favorite.
00:04:57 Leah
And you wrote them in and all this stuff.
00:05:01 Leah
Sometimes it doesn't feel like that's me, but a lot of times it does.
00:05:03 Leah
And do I eat it up?
00:05:05 Leah
Yes, because obviously they're fan favorite for a reason.
00:05:08 Leah
But this this one actually feels like.
00:05:13 Leah
Earned, but also reasonable like fake waking up from her coma.
00:05:18 Leah
It's like, duh.
00:05:19 Leah
She's a Slayer.
00:05:20 Leah
Like like I remember in season three when they're like, no, it doesn't feel like a stretch.
00:05:23 Tabby
It doesn't feel stretched.
00:05:26 Leah
It doesn't feel like, oh, we need, we need to figure something else, something out. Because, you know, this season sucks and no one's watching. It really felt like a logical.
00:05:35 Leah
Thing that would happen.
00:05:36 Leah
The only thing that I I don't like and it's not the episodes fault, it's the placement of the episode.
00:05:43 Leah
I don't like that it comes after goodbye Iowa, because that's the only thing that makes it feel a little bit like.
00:05:46 Sarah
I agree.
00:05:52 Sarah
It derails the trajectory of the season.
00:05:54 Leah
And it makes it feel a little bit.
00:05:58 Leah
Honestly, it's hard to come back from these episodes back into a storyline centered around Riley again, but also, just like it's weird to go from a place where it's like we just met Adam.
00:06:09 Leah
We're supposed to be like at.
00:06:10 Leah
The climax of like.
00:06:12 Leah
You know, interest in this story and then it's like then you throw faith in there.
00:06:16 Leah
It's like how the Frick am I supposed to care about the other story?
00:06:19 Leah
What when this is going on?
00:06:21 Sarah
Yeah, no, I agree.
00:06:22 Sarah
I think it's also hard too because.
00:06:25 Sarah
Seeing faith come back, I mean the seasons about identity.
00:06:28 Sarah
It's about finding out who you are.
00:06:30 Sarah
And with faith, we're like.
00:06:31 Sarah
Yes, I see that so clearly and it reminds us what the show is doing so poorly with Riley.
00:06:39 Sarah
We genuinely care about faith.
00:06:41 Sarah
We care about whether or not she can find herself and find her place in this world.
00:06:45 Sarah
Riley, we don't really care as much.
00:06:47 Sarah
Why is that?
00:06:48 Sarah
We've spent more time with faith possibly than Riley at this point, but.
00:06:52 Sarah
Riley is considered a main character.
00:06:54 Sarah
He's in.
00:06:55 Sarah
Credits Eliza Dushku never was, and yet somehow the show.
00:06:59 Sarah
I mean, season three was tight, was able to incorporate faith enough that we understood her desires, her fears, her hopes like a little enough of her back story with Riley.
00:07:09 Sarah
We just didn't get that.
00:07:11 Sarah
And so we're really struggling and having faith brought in here.
00:07:14 Sarah
We're going man.
00:07:15 Sarah
That's what we're kind of missing is like this.
00:07:16 Sarah
Pull towards this character.
00:07:19 Sarah
Yeah, and it's just it's glaringly obvious in these episodes, but we'll take what we can get at this point.
00:07:24 Sarah
A little break from Riley.
00:07:25 Sarah
It's it's never a bad thing, in my opinion.
00:07:29 Sarah
All right, so this year's girl, written by Douglas Petrie, which is really fun because Douglas Petrie has written its seems a majority of the faith centric seasons or episodes.
00:07:40 Sarah
And that's kind of addressed here in, in.
00:07:42 Sarah
A minute with a couple quotes.
00:07:44 Sarah
Directed by Michael Gershman, again, Michael Gershman.
00:07:47 Sarah
Passion consequences.
00:07:50 Sarah
He's the guy that directed those episodes, but also he's the cinematographer for the show.
00:07:55 Sarah
I mean, all his episodes are just beautiful and there's something extra special about them.
00:07:59 Tabby
Well, this is gonna.
00:07:59 Leah
Be maybe a controversial take, but can they please bring him on instead of the?
00:08:04 Leah
Freaking girl, who always has.
00:08:06 Leah
The weird sex story.
00:08:07 Leah
Friends like please.
00:08:09 Leah
I'm so sick of seeing weird sexual like storylines instead of like ones that are like deep and hard hitting.
00:08:17 Leah
Not that she doesn't have good episodes.
00:08:19 Leah
I know she does, especially a bit later on in the show.
00:08:22 Leah
But like.
00:08:24 Leah
They give her a little bit too much creativity.
00:08:28 Sarah
Marty noxon.
00:08:29 Sarah
OK, so Michael Gershman is the he does like the lighting and stuff.
00:08:35 Sarah
Marty Knoxes, a writer and I am so sorry.
00:08:37 Leah
Oh, thought he was a writer.
00:08:39 Sarah
No, you.
00:08:40 Sarah
I was talking about Douglas Petrie as a writer, I I like Douglas Petrie.
00:08:41 Leah
My bad.
00:08:43 Sarah
As a writer, Michael Gershman's, the lighting guy. Yeah, not to burst your bubble. Yeah, but Marty Noxon, the lady who, like, writes all those weird sex stories? She is the showrunner for season six and seven, which is why it is what it is.
00:08:56 Leah
That's why I'm saying, like, some of the episode.
00:08:58 Leah
And the later ones are good.
00:09:00 Leah
I'm just saying I think they give her a little bit too much creativity, freedom, free reign, and it shows a bit.
00:09:10 Sarah
Well, I'm excited to see your thoughts in the later episodes.
00:09:12 Sarah
Once you watched it again, because I don't necessarily agree that she got better with time, but, you know, she has her moments.
00:09:17 Leah
I don't think she got.
00:09:18 Leah
I'm not saying.
00:09:18 Leah
She got better.
00:09:19 Leah
I'm saying that.
00:09:20 Leah
Like she did.
00:09:21 Leah
Create some good episodes and some good storyline.
00:09:24 Leah
I'm saying that there should have been someone else in check, maybe being like maybe let's not have so many sexual storylines.
00:09:31 Leah
You don't need.
00:09:32 Sarah
All right, so this episode, aired February 22nd, 2000, writer Douglas Petrie revealed he almost titled this episode Rise and Shine.
00:09:41 Sarah
So IMDb says rise and shine, and then Buffy verse Wiki says rise and shatter. Apparently Douglas Petrie says the correct answer on the DVD commentary. I haven't seen it. I don't have my D's.
00:09:52 Sarah
With me, unfortunately.
00:09:54 Sarah
UM, so if anybody has seen them, let me know if it's rise and shine or white rise and shatter.
00:09:59 Sarah
Either way, it's one of those and I much.
00:10:02 Sarah
Prefer this year's girl because.
00:10:03 Sarah
I think that there's.
00:10:04 Sarah
A lot more to it, which we will go into.
00:10:06 Sarah
So this year's girl, the title of the episode, is a reference to the 1978 song by Elvis Costello of the same name.
00:10:14 Sarah
He wrote this year's girl about the way Men project their fantasies and expectations onto famous women.
00:10:20 Sarah
He sees celebrity as a trap whereby a girl gets pressured into trying to be as intelligent, glamorous and sexy as possible.
00:10:27 Sarah
He says everything in the song is about how the way men see women and what they desire from.
00:10:32 Sarah
Him. He wrote that in his autobiography, Unfaithful music and Disappearing Ink. If there's a lie being told, then it is the one that a girl might be prepared to live or tell in order to live up to some false idea of attraction, he wrote the song of this year's girl as an answer song to The Rolling Stones 1966 Track, Stupid Girl, which he felt was misogynistic.
00:10:52 Sarah
And painted women in a less than flattering light.
00:10:55 Sarah
And I think like looking at the lyrics and kind of having that context behind the title, I think Petri is hinting at the fact that faithe overly sexualized persona is a front.
00:11:05 Sarah
It's actually hiding a scared and vulnerable girl behind it, and she's being who she thinks size society wants her to be and who she's been, in a sense, groomed to be in order to survive.
00:11:15 Sarah
Because we know faith as a survivor, she does what she can to project a strong front.
00:11:20 Sarah
But we know deep.
00:11:21 Sarah
Down that she's.
00:11:22 Sarah
Very much hurting Douglas, Petrie wrote.
00:11:25 Sarah
Bad girls and other pivotal faith episodes like that, he says.
00:11:28 Sarah
If we bring her back, I hope to continue to be trusted in that way, meaning we bring her back past season four, he says.
00:11:34 Sarah
I love writing for the character.
00:11:35 Sarah
She's my personal favorite character in the Buffy universe.
00:11:38 Sarah
She's bad.
00:11:39 Sarah
Buffy, if you will, and for whatever reasons that I care.
00:11:42 Sarah
Not to explore.
00:11:42 Sarah
I have empathy with faith.
00:11:44 Sarah
We were once interviewed by an American magazine.
00:11:46 Sarah
They said, what character do you relate to the most?
00:11:48 Sarah
I immediately said faith and everyone in the room took a healthy step back away from me. She is psychotic, but it is a confluence of things with faith. You can't underestimate Elijah Dushku's performance. And Michael Gershwin did an amazing job of directing that.
00:12:00 Sarah
Episode Ray Stellar was a cinematographer of that episode, and he really went to town, throwing Eliza into the mix makes Sarah respond in a certain way, and Sarah is an extraordinary actress.
00:12:10 Sarah
I think that this two parter gave her an opportunity to do some stuff that she's been itching to do for a while.
00:12:15 Sarah
It's very much a team effort and I'm always delighted to have a crack at faith because I love writing her dialogue and I just love writing.
00:12:22 Sarah
Her take on her place in this world.
00:12:25 Sarah
In their book discussing existentialism in Buffy, Richardson and Rab argued that this episode and the next intended or not, explore the impact of Sarts or Sartre.
00:12:36 Sarah
I don't remember which it is.
00:12:37 Sarah
Look the outside view that causes a person to redefine themselves from from the perspective of the other.
00:12:44 Sarah
They interpret faiths defection to the mayor and relentless dreams of Buffy stalking her as faiths attempt to escape buffys judgmental look and the accompanying guilt it brings.
00:12:54 Sarah
So, like we talked in season 3, all about how faith very much feels like she's buffys she's in Buffy's shadow.
00:13:01 Sarah
And it's funny because she was written to be Buffy, shadow Self, so on a metaphorical sense.
00:13:06 Sarah
Yes, she's Buffy shadow, but in a literal sense, faith should have been the only Slayer she should have been the one and only, but.
00:13:14 Sarah
Buffy came back to life, and now there's two of them.
00:13:17 Sarah
And so faith kind of has to share that with Buffy.
00:13:19 Sarah
And there's this idea that, like, you know, she tells Buffy, you know, you took my life in this episode, and she gets angry with Buffy for the fact that she has the Watcher.
00:13:28 Sarah
She has the friends, she has the mom, she has the lover, and we saw faith repeatedly in season three trying to steal parts of Buffy.
00:13:36 Sarah
Life to try to find a place for herself, which is why she goes to the mayor.
00:13:40 Sarah
She goes to the mayor and in an effort to try and find her own identity, her own way and her own life, and Buffy ends up putting her in a coma.
00:13:48 Sarah
And so.
00:13:49 Sarah
Faith is now awake and we talked a lot about, like how Buffy has incorporated and meshed with her shadow side.
00:13:57 Sarah
That was graduation day, so she no longer has a need for faith.
00:14:01 Sarah
So if faith is no longer Buffy shadow, who is she?
00:14:05 Sarah
And I love that.
00:14:06 Sarah
Now we kind of get to.
00:14:08 Sarah
Who explore who faith is apart from Buffy, there's no longer a need for faith to reflect Buffy now.
00:14:16 Sarah
Who is she as a character, as a human being, as a person all by herself, and that makes it so exciting moving forward.
00:14:22 Sarah
Richardson and Rob also can they continue their quote?
00:14:25 Sarah
They say when the two slayers meet again, faith immediately denies her possession.
00:14:29 Sarah
By Buffy against this autonomy, saying I'm my own person.
00:14:32 Sarah
Saying you're not me.
00:14:33 Sarah
However, she's beginning to acknowledge the guilt brought on by Buffys.
00:14:36 Sarah
Look, when Buffy expresses concern for the innocent people surrounding them, faith claims that there is no such thing as an innocent person.
00:14:44 Sarah
Richardson and Rob Point out that therefore, faith herself must realize that some level she is not innocent, but she is in fact guilty of horrendous.
00:14:52 Sarah
And I think if you're paying really close attention, you can kind of see where this episode is going to take us.
00:14:58 Sarah
This episode is setting us up for faith, having to face the horrible things that she did in the past.
00:15:07 Leah
I was going.
00:15:07 Leah
To say kind of going off what you said, Sarah, this episode really forces faith to take accountability, which is what you guys said, but also it takes away the excuse of.
00:15:21 Leah
Being able to blame.
00:15:23 Leah
Like because at this point it's like dude like.
00:15:28 Leah
You have been out of Buffy.
00:15:29 Leah
Shadow you you can't like you're free now.
00:15:32 Leah
You don't have the master, you don't have.
00:15:34 Leah
Like this is pretty much like a free chance for you to like go run away, escape and become your own Slayer.
00:15:42 Leah
If you really if that's what you truly desire.
00:15:44 Leah
But this episode really shows that like it was never.
00:15:49 Leah
But these fault not that I think a lot of people were thinking that, but just in case they were like this episode really shows like, dude like, it was always faith who had these issues and these kind of like jealousy and bitterness.
00:16:06 Leah
And this episode really shows like.
00:16:08 Leah
Faith had every chance to run away, to get away, to go be a hero or a villain in any right or whatever she wanted to do, but she chose to stay and to torture Buffy because.
00:16:21 Leah
She was bitter.
00:16:23 Sarah
Totally well.
00:16:24 Sarah
And I think it's so interesting because we again talking about Shadow selves, shadow sides, faith is Buffy shadow.
00:16:30 Sarah
But shadows aren't inherently bad and wrong. It's just the other side of yourself that you're suppressing. So if you look at it from that perspective, Buffy is Faith's shadow Self, so Buffy is everything that faith is suppressing in her.
00:16:44 Sarah
Self. So watching this episode, Bobby's already integrated with her Shadow Self faith. She's already taken what she needs from faith.
00:16:50 Sarah
Faith now needs to integrate with her shadow self, which is Buffy.
00:16:53 Sarah
She needs to accept responsibility.
00:16:55 Sarah
She needs to accept accountability, as Leah said, and she needs to recognize what she did wrong and how to move forward.
00:17:02 Sarah
And I I.
00:17:03 Sarah
Think that is such.
00:17:04 Sarah
A cool thing.
00:17:05 Sarah
Now we're seeing the.
00:17:06 Sarah
There the other character go through it and so in.
00:17:09 Tabby
Well, we start out with a dream and it's funny that you say that because I was like, oh, Sarah, like, you're the expert on the metaphorical dream.
00:17:16 Tabby
So I was going to ask if you wanted to analyze this opening dream sequence.
00:17:21 Sarah
Yeah, gladly.
00:17:23 Sarah
I mean, we all know or we should know at this point that Joss Whedon is heavy on foreshadowing.
00:17:31 Sarah
And so there's been a couple of dream sequences, especially between Buffy and Faith in season three, that we haven't been able to talk about fully, simply because there's some big stuff coming up that this foreshadows and that would be all.
00:17:42 Sarah
Spoilers and stuff, but.
00:17:43 Sarah
Uh, once again, we see Buffy and faith in a bedroom.
00:17:46 Sarah
Do you guys remember the last dream sequence we had with Buffy and Faith?
00:17:49 Sarah
We were in faiths, bedroom.
00:17:51 Sarah
We are now in Buffys bedroom, so this is symbolizing that faith has to work out things with her shadow side with Buffy.
00:17:58 Sarah
Now she's inside of, like, we're in faiths dream this is not buffys dream.
00:18:03 Sarah
Nowhere is it indicated to us.
00:18:05 Sarah
In the episode that Buffy is experiencing these dreams and knows about what's happening, I'm.
00:18:11 Sarah
I'm not sure if she, like, is aware of it because you know the foreshadowing and all the other stuff like that.
00:18:16 Sarah
It would seem like that's going to be.
00:18:17 Sarah
Implying something to Buffy but this.
00:18:19 Sarah
Is faith stream for all intents and purposes?
00:18:22 Sarah
We have the same music that played during the dream sequence in graduation day Part 2.
00:18:26 Sarah
It's a variation of the Buffy theme, just with more dissonance and a non resolution.
00:18:31 Sarah
So Buffy says smell good, don't they?
00:18:34 Sarah
They're making this bed versus, you know, the bed was already made before faith was in the bed last time.
00:18:40 Sarah
Now she's out.
00:18:41 Sarah
They say something really like important Buffy looks over at a clock and says I wish I could stay, but Faith says you have to go a little sis is coming.
00:18:51 Sarah
I know, and we're merely like, wait a minute.
00:18:54 Sarah
What do you mean by that?
00:18:56 Sarah
Faith says so much to do before she gets here.
00:18:58 Sarah
So that implies that it's somebody else, not faith.
00:19:01 Sarah
So does a lot of confusion.
00:19:03 Sarah
I wish I could say more, but I can't, but because it looks at the clock again says now I really have to go.
00:19:08 Sarah
If we remember, in graduation day, Faith says Little Miss Muffet counting down from 7 three O, so again.
00:19:16 Sarah
Wondering and then in the prom, Buffy also said to Giles, I know I know miles to go before we sleep.
00:19:25 Sarah
When Giles was saying, hey, like, I don't know if you should go up to the hell.
00:19:30 Sarah
So again, a lot of symbolism with the bed, with resting, with sleeping, with time, with a countdown, something about a little sister.
00:19:39 Sarah
Then we see faith has the knife still inside of her, and it's Buffy still holding the knife.
00:19:44 Sarah
Buffy has a look of the knife.
00:19:45 Sarah
It's bleeding out on top of the bed.
00:19:48 Sarah
The blood starts to flow.
00:19:50 Sarah
And she says, Faith says, are you ever going to take this thing out?
00:19:55 Sarah
And then buffys expression goes really hard and cold blooded as the script says, and then out of frame she rips the knife up and then it kills.
00:20:03 Sarah
It's supposed to kill faith, and then we cut to a hospital room and we see that faith is still in a coma.
00:20:12 Sarah
But we can tell that she's having this dream.
00:20:14 Sarah
She's in the coma, so I mentioned before J Michael Richardson and J Douglas Rabbs essay, Buffy, Faith, and Bad Faith, choosing to be the Chosen 1.
00:20:25 Sarah
They talked about how smart and his ideas impact the show, and we actually talked about start before in lovers.
00:20:31 Sarah
Walk Angel was reading nausea and Joss Whedon has talked about how that's like the most the book that has impacted him the most ever in his life.
00:20:39 Sarah
And so it would make sense that this show is based a lot upon sarpe's ideas.
00:20:44 Sarah
We talked a lot about, you know, existential crises and all that stuff.
00:20:48 Sarah
But they said something really interesting about faiths.
00:20:51 Sarah
Knife in this scene and in all the dream sequences here.
00:20:55 Sarah
Because if wall were called, the mayor gifted this to faith and then we had that moment and I think.
00:21:01 Sarah
It was.
00:21:02 Sarah
Consequences or no choices where faith throws the knife at a spider to save Wesley.
00:21:09 Sarah
And you could tell she wants to go after it when she leaves the room, but Buffy grabs the knife and that's the knife that Buffy ultimately stabs faith with, and it's also the knife that Buffy uses to goad the mayor into chasing after her in a snake forms.
00:21:22 Sarah
This knife has a lot of significance and they said something that I never thought about.
00:21:26 Sarah
They say from a sartrean perspective.
00:21:29 Sarah
The dagger and Buffy stabbing faith with it turn out to be even more important.
00:21:33 Sarah
The dagger is faithe possession, as we have seen upon receiving it.
00:21:37 Sarah
She admires it almost erotically.
00:21:39 Sarah
Sarte would say that she possesses it in the sense of putting her spirit into it.
00:21:43 Sarah
It is as though the dagger thus becomes a part of her, or rather, that she has become the dagger.
00:21:48 Sarah
It is the symbol of her warrior nature, but also a mere physical object with no freedom to choose projects and plans for the future as humans do.
00:21:56 Sarah
This is one way in which faith can deny her freedom and thus responsibility for what she has done.
00:22:01 Sarah
Because remember, this episode is the beginning of the arc of faith.
00:22:04 Sarah
Trying to gain responsibility.
00:22:07 Leah
Would be so niche and I know that most people are not going to understand this, but do you guys remember this story?
00:22:13 Leah
Mine in Mullen, where Morgana is starting to turn bad and only Mullin is getting like the visions of it, and one of the visions is her getting this brand new dagger that's all like jewel from from Arthur and in the vision she like opens it and she like looks at it.
00:22:33 Leah
The same way that faith looks at the dagger that she gets, and it's just interesting to me that.
00:22:41 Leah
It's a bit.
00:22:41 Leah
Of a pattern in certain TV shows where it's like what a girl is turning bad.
00:22:46 Leah
It's like this stagger.
00:22:48 Leah
This knife is a way of like symbolizing like oh, like they're fast.
00:22:51 Tabby
Hidden Weapon which is the.
00:22:52 Leah
They're it's like they're fascination with like, death or their fascination with, like, darkness that was supernation.
00:22:59 Leah
But that's always what comes to mind.
00:23:00 Leah
Whenever I think of.
00:23:01 Leah
Like that is just like the like.
00:23:05 Leah
Faith kind of obsession with the dagger was always so interesting to me because.
00:23:12 Leah
Like a knife or a dagger is very hands on bloody way to kill someone like.
00:23:19 Leah
Buffy, we've talked about this before, but buffys weapon of choice is across, though, because she doesn't desire to be in the thick of battle.
00:23:26 Leah
She wants to be far removed, protected, and be able to kill without.
00:23:32 Sarah
She doesn't glory in killing someone she kills because she has to.
00:23:34 Leah
Yeah, it's, it's quick, it's fast and it's safe, like, and she's far removed from it because she desires to be as far away from death.
00:23:43 Leah
And being a Slayer as possible.
00:23:46 Leah
Where is faith, enjoys the thrill, the hunt, the action.
00:23:51 Leah
And she she gets off on it.
00:23:54 Leah
And so I always thought that faith, their weapons of choice greatly kind of exemplified who they were as slayers and as people.
00:24:06 Leah
I also kind of view a knife as like control.
00:24:07 Sarah
Very well said.
00:24:10 Leah
So I think it's more than just.
00:24:14 Tabby
You know the thrill of like, killing or like being that close up to the battle.
00:24:18 Tabby
I just kind of.
00:24:19 Tabby
View it as.
00:24:19 Tabby
Like faith is in control of killing somebody in an intimate way with a knife.
00:24:25 Tabby
So it's like she's the one, like throwing the forces and digging in deeper.
00:24:30 Tabby
You know what?
00:24:31 Tabby
Trying to be so graphic.
00:24:32 Tabby
But it's like whereas like Buffy from afar.
00:24:34 Tabby
Doesn't have to do much.
00:24:35 Tabby
Rather than just pull.
00:24:36 Tabby
Bigger and I think faith it's more of like if I'm going to choose this, I'm going to really choose this and this is who I'm going to be because she has a lack of control in her life.
00:24:45 Tabby
And so like she it, it's just like it's a classic, like coping mechanism of just like you not knowing yourself and not knowing like.
00:24:53 Tabby
What it is?
00:24:53 Tabby
That you believe in and who you are.
00:24:56 Tabby
And so, like, I'm just gonna gear towards something that I know I I'm good at and I can control.
00:25:01 Tabby
And I'm gonna really like I always steer into this kit.
00:25:04 Tabby
I always want to say ski into this the skin.
00:25:07
***** to the skid.
00:25:07 Tabby
That's not it.
00:25:09 Tabby
Beaten to the skid.
00:25:12 Tabby
But I mean, OK.
00:25:14 Tabby
There are a lot of things to dissect in this first dream sequence, but the way that I like to view this, I mean there's a there's three dreams that through Faith's perspective in this episode. But I feel like the first one really tells a lot about.
00:25:33 Tabby
How faith has felt in buffys and hers relations.
00:25:37 Tabby
Yep, and.
00:25:39 Tabby
And I really do.
00:25:39 Tabby
Feel like it's very sad.
00:25:42 Tabby
So like you see both of them making the bed together in white sheets, which I mean, this is not all confirmed.
00:25:49 Tabby
This is just my head Canon, so if you disagree with my analysis, that's totally fine, but it's like both of them making the shoot together, which is just.
00:25:57 Tabby
Reminiscent of like.
00:25:58 Tabby
Early season three, where both of them were just.
00:26:00 Tabby
Like pals, we would like work together as I like.
00:26:00 Tabby
Working together.
00:26:04 Tabby
I just like.
00:26:05 Tabby
What's that?
00:26:06 Tabby
I think, ah, I forget what episode it is, but when they're both playing like, together and then they both high five after they post.
00:26:11 Sarah
Revelations it's right before Gwendolyne post comes in.
00:26:15 Sarah
Yes, and tabs.
00:26:16 Sarah
You're actually.
00:26:17 Sarah
You're right.
00:26:17 Sarah
The script says that they are.
00:26:19 Sarah
They're moving In Sync.
00:26:20 Sarah
They're making the bed at the same like they're both supposed to be.
00:26:23 Sarah
Like working together.
00:26:24 Tabby
But then it's also just like, juxtaposed by the fact that the we don't see they do this on purpose, they we don't see white sheets.
00:26:32 Tabby
A lot in the show.
00:26:33 Tabby
It's usually red.
00:26:35 Tabby
It's usually patterned, like we don't see white a ton.
00:26:38 Tabby
And so the fact that it's a white sheet that both of them are pulling over, it's like just these two people that are, in essence killers that don't faith probably more so than Buffy.
00:26:49 Tabby
But both of them doing that together, it's supposed to be this.
00:26:51 Tabby
Like pure like bond.
00:26:52 Tabby
The only both of them.
00:26:53 Tabby
And feel through the Slayer bond.
00:26:56 Tabby
Uhm. And then like?
00:26:58 Tabby
It's like faith you could.
00:26:59 Tabby
Tell that faith, really cherished that in the beginning of season 3.
00:27:02 Tabby
Having that like sisterhood with Buffy and then Buffy saying I have to go for faith.
00:27:08 Tabby
This is really important to her.
00:27:10 Tabby
It's like having someone to do this with to understand her in this sense, like this darkness in her.
00:27:16 Tabby
But then also.
00:27:17 Tabby
Seeing it as something that's like beautiful and everything because it's a white sheet, you know what I mean?
00:27:23 Tabby
And then Buffy is like, oh, I have to go.
00:27:25 Tabby
And you can tell she's like, oh, like, oh, I understand.
00:27:27 Tabby
Like, you have, like, other things you need to do.
00:27:30 Tabby
And so when she starts bleeding out, we don't see the Buffy stabbing her.
00:27:34 Tabby
It's faith being like, oh, shoot, I messed it up.
00:27:38 Tabby
Like, Dang.
00:27:38 Tabby
We just made this together.
00:27:40 Tabby
I'm bleeding out all over this.
00:27:42 Tabby
And then we see that it's Buffy who's stabbing her and she's like, are you ever going to take this out?
00:27:48 Tabby
Like it's very sad, like and I think it's very interesting that we're seeing this through faith perspective because we all watch season 3.
00:27:56 Tabby
Buffy's not all to blame for everything that happened. You know, like, like when.
00:28:00 Leah
You would look back like.
00:28:01 Tabby
Buffy really tried to make friends with faith, like she really like, put herself out.
00:28:05 Tabby
There was really sweet to fail.
00:28:07 Tabby
Like even when Faith had killed people and denied it like her, an Angel really just kind of had their makeshift rehab for faith and really tried to, like, bring her soul back and and and later in the episode, we'll talk about it too.
00:28:21 Tabby
But it's like.
00:28:22 Tabby
Like faith is not over the fact that she like, quote UN quote portrayed her, that she stabbed her.
00:28:28 Tabby
Buffy is like you had it coming, but it's like seeing it from Faith's perspective. We saw how lonely, how depressed, how like, how it's self hatred.
00:28:38 Tabby
Faith had for herself.
00:28:41 Tabby
So when she says like, are you ever going to take this out?
00:28:43 Tabby
We know where faith is coming from.
00:28:45 Tabby
So seeing it from her perspective is a bit jarring.
00:28:49 Sarah
Yeah, that's really well said tabs and it speaks to the nuance at the scene because you have you simultaneously have pity for faith, but you're also like you still need to accept responsibility for what you've done.
00:29:00 Sarah
And I mean there's.
00:29:01 Sarah
That famous thing, the famous saying.
00:29:03 Sarah
You know, you made your bed now lie in it.
00:29:06 Sarah
Faith has made her bed now.
00:29:08 Sarah
She needs to like.
00:29:09 Sarah
Own up and accept responsibility and the consequences, and she keeps.
00:29:13 Sarah
She keeps running.
00:29:14 Sarah
Away from it and.
00:29:15 Sarah
And that's ultimately what?
00:29:16 Sarah
This is but OK, so I'm going to continue to finish this quote here.
00:29:20 Sarah
I'm going to kind of encompasses all of the dream sequences between faith and the mayor, so I figured we'll just kind of because, I mean, they're all kind of rehashing of the same thing, But I'll just talk about it here.
00:29:31 Sarah
So we talked about how the knife is a symbol of her warrior nature is.
00:29:37 Sarah
That she denies her freedom and denies her responsibility for what she's done because it's almost.
00:29:41 Sarah
Like she puts it into the knife and says oh, like this knife had no choice.
00:29:46 Sarah
I had no choice.
00:29:47 Sarah
And that was a big thing.
00:29:47 Sarah
And season three, you do have a choice and faith, you have chosen poorly.
00:29:51 Sarah
You have chosen poorly.
00:29:55 Sarah
Got my Indiana Jones references out of the way.
00:29:58 Sarah
OK, so she says the quote goes on and says she is nothing but a weapon to be wielded by the freedom of the mayor.
00:30:05 Sarah
She is merely the instrument of the mayor's will, as Dostoyevsky might put it, you murdered him. You are the real murderer.
00:30:11 Sarah
I was your only instrument.
00:30:12 Sarah
Your faithful servant.
00:30:13 Sarah
Faith herself has no more responsibility than the dagger.
00:30:16 Sarah
Itself would have.
00:30:18 Sarah
Daggers don't kill people, though people do.
00:30:20 Sarah
Of course, faith is lying to herself and this is what we call bad faith.
00:30:25 Sarah
Again, it's no coincidence that faith is named Faith, so Buffy in taking faiths dagger, a dagger, functioning like a relic, which is possessed by faith Spirit is in effect taking faith herself, possessing faith.
00:30:39 Sarah
And all this kind of ties in with the Young's shadow side. She then makes faith conscious of herself and reflexively conscious of her concealed guilt. And.
00:30:48 Sarah
Morse by returning the dagger to her in the most forceful way possible by stabbing her, making it part of her, thus revealing to her the gut wrenching guilt for which she has been fleeing.
00:30:58 Sarah
The dagger then, is a symbol of faith's guilt as well as the objectification of faith herself. In her attempt to hide from that very guilt. The dagger thus functions in part like Macbeth's.
00:31:08 Sarah
Spectral dagger, which he says appears before him.
00:31:11 Sarah
It's handled towards my hand.
00:31:13 Sarah
So again, Joss loves his Shakespeare.
00:31:15 Sarah
So you have a little bit of Macbeth there you have.
00:31:17 Sarah
The start you have a little bit of, you know, just all these different philosophers and interesting bits of literature and and it all comes together very Shakespearean.
00:31:26 Sarah
Two faith.
00:31:27 Sarah
It's like, all right, faith.
00:31:28 Sarah
You have blood on your hands, you blood on.
00:31:30 Sarah
The sheets.
00:31:31 Sarah
Are you going to take responsibility or once again, as the subconscious is implying, are you going to say it's buffys fault?
00:31:38 Sarah
Copies the one that should pay for it.
00:31:40 Tabby
So we move on over into the basement and this starts the running gag of Xander trying to fix the weapon but struggling the entire episode and and then we see like Buffy and Giles talking on the side, we find out that she's been patrolling nonstop for three days straight trying to find.
00:32:00 Tabby
Adam suggests that she needs rest, but of course we know Buffy.
00:32:04 Tabby
She's not going to find rest, especially if there's like a Terminator.
00:32:07 Tabby
Like half man, half robot man out there.
00:32:13 Tabby
There's no word from Riley. We find that he is still inside the initiative, but she's heard that he's quote, UN quote.
00:32:18 Tabby
Fine, but she doesn't know what that quite means.
00:32:21 Tabby
Zander gets shocked.
00:32:22 Tabby
From the gun in the corner, no one notices.
00:32:24 Sarah
That was pretty funny.
00:32:25 Leah
No one noticed this.
00:32:27 Leah
I know.
00:32:27 Leah
It's so sad.
00:32:29 Tabby
And the Buffy makes a good point.
00:32:30 Tabby
She's like, well, what happens to somebody if they're being brainwashed?
00:32:34 Tabby
The initiative and the initiative stops liking their behavior, which is very true.
00:32:39 Leah
Which is also like why was no one asking this question forever ago, because it's like the initiative was always so shady about their initiation process.
00:32:49 Leah
I guess for lack of a better.
00:32:51 Leah
Word but it's like.
00:32:52 Leah
How do they get recruited?
00:32:53 Leah
It's not like the military, where you go and sign up because it's secretive, like you don't know about it.
00:32:59 Leah
So it's like, how do you get into it?
00:33:01 Leah
How do you get out of it like there just was so much about the initiative that didn't seem like a lot of.
00:33:07 Leah
People were asking about.
00:33:08 Sarah
Right.
00:33:09 Sarah
Well, and if they're willing to put chips into monsters into animals, and they have created, they have created a monster.
00:33:17 Sarah
In order to do what we don't.
00:33:20 Sarah
Know but like take over the world.
00:33:21 Sarah
Or take out, get rid of all the monsters and stuff.
00:33:24 Sarah
And we know that they are drugging Riley, or they have drugged Riley in the past.
00:33:27 Sarah
Just because Maggie Walsh is gone doesn't mean that idea isn't still floating around with a lot of people, you know?
00:33:32 Sarah
So I feel like these are natural conclusions that like they should have come.
00:33:35 Sarah
To a few episodes.
00:33:37 Sarah
So, but that's season four for you.
00:33:40 Tabby
And then we see in the initiative hospital Riley is in bed and then grabs Buffys headband or whatever that is from last episode.
00:33:50 Tabby
And he tries to get up and his waist is still bandaged.
00:33:54 Tabby
He's struggling.
00:33:55 Tabby
My gosh.
00:33:55 Tabby
And the freaking forest comes up.
00:33:57 Tabby
I just was like like I'm just getting.
00:34:02 Leah
In the way every time he pops.
00:34:03 Sarah
I'm kind of.
00:34:03 Sarah
Done with forest, yeah.
00:34:04 Leah
Up, I know because.
00:34:06 Tabby
He says the same thing.
00:34:07 Tabby
It's not like.
00:34:07 Tabby
It's something new that he's like.
00:34:09 Tabby
You know, cropping on.
00:34:11 Tabby
It's like the exact same thing.
00:34:12 Tabby
It's like it.
00:34:14 Tabby
This just felt like when you're in high school and your parents don't want you to date somebody and ask you where you're going.
00:34:19 Tabby
That's how it felt.
00:34:19 Tabby
I was like, my goodness.
00:34:20 Sarah
You're not his parent.
00:34:22 Sarah
Yeah, well, I mean again, they're going for the whole family aspect because it's supposed to be like the toxic family metaphor.
00:34:28 Sarah
This idea of, like, if we can keep you in, if, if if we have to keep you thinking that.
00:34:33 Sarah
Well, we're your family, and you can't betray your family. We want you tied to us so that you don't feel guilty or so that you feel guilty if you betray us or whatever. And I mean. But Forrest is so Dang obsessed with Riley's sex life.
00:34:48 Sarah
Every time he's talking, there's something sexual that comes out about Riley.
00:34:52 Sarah
Like, don't even tell me you're headed for that girlfriend of yours.
00:34:55 Sarah
Look at you.
00:34:55 Sarah
One good conjugal visit and you'll be back in intensive.
00:34:59 Leah
It's not all about sex.
00:35:03 Tabby
Go ahead, Leah.
00:35:04 Leah
Comes off as gay.
00:35:06 Leah
This is why he doesn't know when he comes.
00:35:06 Sarah
Right. Yeah. Hey, wait, wait.
00:35:08 Leah
No, it's because he's so hyper focused on like Riley, sex life.
00:35:14 Sarah
Riley's yeah.
00:35:15 Leah
But it's like if you're just a friend, or if you're even just a family member or like supposed family member.
00:35:22 Leah
Why are you so obsessed?
00:35:25 Leah
Like, that's why it comes off as this.
00:35:27 Leah
Like, like possessive ex lover is like, oh, you're going to go.
00:35:33 Leah
To your girlfriend. Have sex.
00:35:34 Leah
With her like.
00:35:34 Tabby
Well, did you?
00:35:34 Leah
Well, maybe.
00:35:35 Leah
Maybe I am.
00:35:35 Tabby
Did you?
00:35:35 Tabby
Catch what Riley said.
00:35:38 Tabby
Did you get because the IT sounds so like there was some undertones because they're talking and then he goes like uh, like forces something like, oh, you're gonna go home.
00:35:47 Tabby
And so whatever to your girlfriend.
00:35:48 Tabby
And then Riley goes you would you wouldn't under.
00:35:53 Tabby
Right. Yeah, it sounds.
00:35:55 Leah
Like, come on.
00:35:56 Leah
Yeah, it just comes off as, like, force.
00:35:59 Leah
You wouldn't understand me because you're.
00:36:00 Leah
Not into girls.
00:36:01 Tabby
Like, that's what I'm saying, yes.
00:36:04 Leah
It's it's.
00:36:04 Leah
Yeah, uh-huh.
00:36:05 Leah
Like from Stranger Things when?
00:36:07 Sarah
I was gonna say it's gonna gives Will Byers.
00:36:10 Leah
When when Mike tells will like?
00:36:14 Leah
Uh, what does he say?
00:36:15 Sarah
You, he says you wouldn't.
00:36:15 Leah
He says I don't understand you.
00:36:16 Tabby
Like girls.
00:36:17 Tabby
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:18 Leah
Don't even like.
00:36:18 Tabby
No, he says.
00:36:19 Tabby
Yeah, that's what he said.
00:36:19 Leah
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:20 Leah
Which is like pretty much the same thing along the lines of like, you don't understand what I'm going through because you literally don't understand what I'm.
00:36:28 Leah
Going through like.
00:36:30 Leah
I know people.
00:36:31 Leah
I know people are.
00:36:31 Leah
Tired of hearing it like like?
00:36:34 Tabby
I know that people could brush it off as.
00:36:36 Tabby
Like oh, like he's saying that as in, like, oh, you don't like date.
00:36:40 Tabby
You don't go out and like, you don't have a girlfriend sort of thing.
00:36:43 Tabby
But it's like the.
00:36:44 Tabby
Way he says it, it's like almost as if he's been waiting this moment to, like, throw.
00:36:47 Tabby
It at him.
00:36:48 Sarah
I don't know.
00:36:48 Sarah
It's so weird.
00:36:50 Sarah
The subtext is very much there for sure.
00:36:52 Sarah
I mean, I think they initially wrote it to be like because forces we have a problem.
00:36:56 Sarah
We all deal with that.
00:36:57 Sarah
Problem you know the most important thing of the equation right now is we keep set problem within.
00:37:00 Sarah
The family.
00:37:01 Sarah
It's like the cultish vibe of, like, we don't let anybody else know.
00:37:06 Sarah
Like we're having internal investigations, we're not or internal reviews.
00:37:09 Sarah
We're not gonna let anybody else know about it, but the subtext and it the the sad thing is that we all see and write for us as gay because that gives us some gives him some motivation and humanizes him.
00:37:21 Sarah
Which tells us that they're not doing a good enough job of humanizing and flushing out for us.
00:37:26 Sarah
So we have to add the subtext and back story there for him.
00:37:28 Leah
Right, I think honestly say that's the point is.
00:37:31 Leah
Like we don't.
00:37:32 Leah
Ever see Forrest as anyone but Riley's obsessive friend? So it's.
00:37:37 Leah
Like the only.
00:37:37 Sarah
Yeah, right.
00:37:38 Leah
Natural way way we can take that is like.
00:37:41 Leah
Clearly you're into him because we only ever see him obsessing over Lily.
00:37:45 Leah
We don't see him at all having any desire.
00:37:48 Leah
Hates likes anything for.
00:37:51 Leah
Anything else? It's all done.
00:37:52 Tabby
Other than Riley and his sex life, yeah.
00:37:56 Tabby
So we see like faith and like it's very reminiscent of the colors.
00:38:01 Tabby
And the dress that mayor gave her, the pink one.
00:38:04 Tabby
And I don't remember which episode.
00:38:06 Tabby
And they're having like this, like Father, daughter picnic, which is kind of what he says like to her when he gives her that dress in season three, he's like, it's very like a fatherly thing.
00:38:14 Tabby
Like he buys her an apartment, like he's kind of just being that, like, stand in Father figure they're having just a very, like, pure time.
00:38:22 Tabby
And I really feel like, what is the most telling about this specific?
00:38:27 Tabby
Dream because this one's quicker than the other ones and it seems a little bit more simple, but I feel like other than like obviously about me showing up and like killing the mirror, which is like that one's pretty in our face.
00:38:36 Tabby
We know what that one means, but I feel like the part of this dream that really stuck out to me.
00:38:44 Tabby
Was that they're having like this, like, beautiful simple picnic and the sun is shining and they're sitting out in the open.
00:38:51 Tabby
They're not hidden, they're out in the open during daylight, and while the mayor is having, like, a very, like, he's able to relax, he's able to have a good time.
00:39:01 Tabby
Faith says it looks like it's going to rain.
00:39:04 Tabby
And he's like, no.
00:39:06 Tabby
Like it like, just enjoy, like, whatever paraphrasing and then she goes like, it always seems to rain right about now.
00:39:14 Tabby
Oh, that made my heart hurt.
00:39:16 Tabby
I was like, man, like, it's like it's this part of her that.
00:39:19 Tabby
They just they can't enjoy the good things in our life because it's always ripped away.
00:39:24 Tabby
And again, from Faithe perspective, it's really sad, but then it's like also you think about season.
00:39:30 Tabby
Three you like.
00:39:30 Tabby
Well, you kind of dug yourself this ditch.
00:39:33 Tabby
You know what?
00:39:33 Tabby
Mean like you made you lose this?
00:39:36 Tabby
Chose the mayor as like a stand in father.
00:39:38 Tabby
And yes, he was nice to you, but again, you you pushed away the Scoobies like you pushed away those possibilities.
00:39:44 Tabby
But then you also understand her perspective.
00:39:46 Tabby
It's like, oh, like the mayor really did accept her flaws, and she felt like she could just show that side of herself whether or not like she could show both sides for herself to him is kind of a a question mark.
00:39:57 Tabby
But it's like that whole side of herself that she hates.
00:39:59 Tabby
She felt like.
00:40:00 Tabby
She could have she.
00:40:01 Tabby
Felt a little bit more accepted for.
00:40:04 Leah
You know, we also know that that fleet has had a serious, I mean a obviously faith has daddy issues.
00:40:10 Leah
Uh, Ding, Ding, Ding.
00:40:11 Leah
But like also the fact that, like, we know that she had another watcher who died.
00:40:18 Leah
And then it's like then you come and you see her observe this relationship between laughing and Giles, which is so beautiful and so like tender.
00:40:28 Leah
But it's like.
00:40:29 Leah
Her watcher dies and then you see Buffy.
00:40:31 Leah
Who has this watcher that's alive and loves her and has such a beautiful connection that she's like desiring not.
00:40:38 Leah
Of her own if she wants someone who understands her and loves her and defends her and protects her the way that Giles does her Buffy.
00:40:48 Leah
And then it's like then she gets roughly.
00:40:51 Leah
Then she gets.
00:40:52 Leah
The girl, who wasn't even a real watcher.
00:40:55 Leah
And then she gets betrayed by her.
00:40:57 Leah
Then she gets Wesley, who's little weasel, when he's introduced.
00:41:01 Leah
And he's like such a stickler for the rules.
00:41:04 Leah
Clearly doesn't even care for faith like he just is there, because that's his job.
00:41:10 Leah
That's his duty is to be a watcher and he doesn't really understand that.
00:41:15 Leah
Being a watcher so much more than just giving them demands and you know, missions, it's it's about caring for their well-being.
00:41:24 Leah
And then she meets the mayor, and the mayor is like the only one who actually seems to care.
00:41:32 Leah
The only one who seems to actually see the dark parts of her.
00:41:36 Leah
And instead of.
00:41:37 Leah
Correcting her opens her with, I mean, welcomes her with open arms.
00:41:41 Leah
Yes, of course.
00:41:43 Leah
She should have known better.
00:41:44 Leah
But also they just do such a good job of like really making.
00:41:50 Leah
Like you really understand why.
00:41:52 Tabby
She did what?
00:41:53 Leah
She did, and why she was drawn to what she like, what she did.
00:41:56 Leah
I don't know what I'm saying.
00:41:59 Leah
I hope this makes sense.
00:42:01 Sarah
No, it all makes sense and it's actually going to tie into what I was going to say next because you know, you literally have Riley.
00:42:06 Sarah
And for us, talking about family, is that what we are and all that stuff?
00:42:09 Sarah
And again, they are constantly contrasting and comparing Riley with different characters.
00:42:13 Sarah
And so right now, Riley and Faith are kind of going through the similar thing.
00:42:16 Sarah
All the Scoobies are going through some sort of identity crisis in this season.
00:42:20 Sarah
But right now, Riley and Faith are kind of at a similar.
00:42:23 Sarah
Place we have family.
00:42:26 Sarah
This concept of family and then we see this dream sequence with faith, with the only family we've met, like on screen.
00:42:33 Sarah
So far we have her with the mayor, the father figure they're on a picnic they're wearing.
00:42:38 Sarah
She's wearing the dress or something similar to it that the the mayor gifted her back in season 3.
00:42:44 Sarah
She wants a family.
00:42:45 Sarah
She wants a place to belong.
00:42:47 Sarah
Since the beginning of season 3, Faith has always wanted a place to belong.
00:42:50 Sarah
Amends. She goes to Buffy and Joyce's house for Christmas. Like there's just a common theme here. And so with the mayor, she felt like she found a place to belong for a little while.
00:43:02 Sarah
While, but once again, instead of taking responsibility and accepting that maybe her choice is letter to the place where she is now, she blames it on Buffy because she talks about the rain and then who shows up looking like a rain cloud.
00:43:13 Sarah
It's Buffy.
00:43:14 Sarah
You know, like it once again, it's showing what faith wants things from her perspective and.
00:43:21 Sarah
And then Buffy.
00:43:22 Sarah
You know, is it?
00:43:23 Sarah
I do also think it's really interesting that.
00:43:25 Sarah
The mayor says he sees the snake, the little Garter snake, and he says they're now little fella.
00:43:30 Sarah
I don't know where you belong, but it's sure not here with us.
00:43:33 Sarah
There you go.
00:43:34 Sarah
You see, there's nothing that can spoil our time together again.
00:43:36 Sarah
This is from faithe perspective.
00:43:38 Sarah
It's like in from her mind.
00:43:40 Sarah
She wishes that he was solely focused on her.
00:43:42 Sarah
Maybe not the Ascension, which I thought was interesting.
00:43:45 Sarah
I think this parts up for interpretation.
00:43:47 Sarah
I've heard some people say that like.
00:43:49 Sarah
In with Christian symbolism the the snake.
00:43:52 Sarah
Represents the deception of a man and of woman and of sin and all that stuff.
00:44:00 Sarah
And so the symbolism of the mayor picking up the snake and saying you don't belong here with us, it's faith subconscious trying to say, oh, no guilt, no shame, no any evil or bad thing.
00:44:13 Sarah
Belongs here with us.
00:44:14 Sarah
It's just my time with the mayor.
00:44:15 Sarah
This is what she wishes would have happened.
00:44:18 Sarah
Which is really interesting.
00:44:19 Sarah
And again.
00:44:21 Sarah
We have the way the mayor talks about faith.
00:44:23 Sarah
It's very childlike, kind of like what we talked about season 3.
00:44:29 Tabby
I just kind of thought that it was like.
00:44:32 Tabby
Now that I'm saying, gonna say that also I'm so dumb.
00:44:35 Tabby
But like a mini version of like himself, because that's what he turned into.
00:44:39 Tabby
And so it's like like him being like ohh like at at at peace or like one with like like nature and like that like Oh yeah scary part of nature.
00:44:51 Tabby
But it's like a tiny one and he's.
00:44:53 Tabby
Just like oh.
00:44:54 Tabby
And then just like puts it down and it's like not affected by it?
00:44:57 Tabby
Whereas like if this was like actual father daughter picnic, to say that she's like 3 or 4, she'd be freaking.
00:45:01 Tabby
What about it?
00:45:02 Tabby
So the fact that he's, like, chill about it and I was like, oh, hey, friend.
00:45:05 Tabby
And I just gotta put it down.
00:45:06 Tabby
It's like, oh, you you don't belong here, but.
00:45:08 Tabby
Right could also be the the.
00:45:10 Tabby
Metaphorical sin thing too.
00:45:13 Sarah
No, it's all up for interpretation.
00:45:14 Sarah
I mean, there's some stuff that's very clearly written in there by Josh Whedon, but I think everybody is welcome to bring their own interpretation to things, too.
00:45:21 Sarah
Cause it's art, you know, it's.
00:45:23 Sarah
What does it mean to you in this moment, and things are written so vaguely and broadly sometimes that within the weed and verse and the Buffy verse that we're able to be able to go, hey, this can mean multiple different things.
00:45:33 Sarah
So you're not.
00:45:34 Tabby
Wrong. So we.
00:45:35 Tabby
See Buffy in the in the gang patrolling again, I'm looking for.
00:45:40 Tabby
For them.
00:45:41 Tabby
And then they start to split up and then they all run into the same demon.
00:45:45 Tabby
That's kind of.
00:45:46 Tabby
Splayed out and hung up, and all of its organs on display.
00:45:51 Tabby
And they can kind of guess that.
00:45:53 Tabby
Adam is taking mental notes of how anatomy works and how.
00:45:59 Sarah
Life works physical notes too.
00:46:01 Tabby
It looks like, yeah.
00:46:03 Tabby
So back in the basement, they're all talking about it.
00:46:05 Tabby
They're all very clearly grossed out about it.
00:46:08 Tabby
They say Adam is studying bodies, trying to figure out what life is like.
00:46:12 Tabby
And then uh buffys like, hey, like I need to get Riley out and then starts giving all these orders them initially or individually and tells will like, hey, you need to hack into the initiative.
00:46:23 Tabby
Give her 10 minutes to get in, and if that doesn't work out to use magic anything that she can do to get her inside tells Zander.
00:46:32 Tabby
He can take any of the weapons that he has and then Riley pops up and says I'm really worth all that.
00:46:39 Tabby
Well, if he just like walked out of you were like.
00:46:40 Tabby
No, just kidding.
00:46:43 Sarah
Leave them in there. They're so, so much more interesting. When he wasn't here. Like, look, look what happens when Riley's gone. Faith shows up. Let's.
00:46:44 Leah
Maybe for a busy.
00:46:50 Sarah
Do more of this.
00:46:50 Tabby
We see it patrolling too.
00:46:52 Tabby
We haven't seen patrolling so long like he's like here.
00:46:54 Tabby
Oh, yeah.
00:46:55 Tabby
We get to see something.
00:46:56 Leah
Yeah. And they're together, I.
00:46:57
That's a new.
00:46:58 Leah
Understand why the show decided to make the emotional crux of the of the season on the most.
00:47:07 Leah
Motionless character.
00:47:10 Leah
Like I actually don't understand, like I'm not trying to bash Riley, but like Riley is just objectively not a very emotional character.
00:47:18 Leah
He like, I mean.
00:47:19 Leah
He's he has emotions and he's like, not extremely emotionally intelligent, but.
00:47:24 Sarah
He's just not well written, yeah.
00:47:26 Leah
He's just not like Buffy is an emotionally complex character, so is, so is Zander.
00:47:33 Leah
So is Willow.
00:47:34 Leah
So like, so is even they even like Wesley to a certain degree, had an emotional depth.
00:47:41 Tabby
To him like.
00:47:43 Leah
I just don't like.
00:47:44 Leah
I don't know.
00:47:45 Leah
I I look like the writers just fell asleep when writing lightly.
00:47:49 Leah
I don't.
00:47:50 Sarah
They're like, oh, wow, this is a compelling.
00:47:53 Tabby
And here's the thing.
00:47:54 Tabby
I think that and we'll get there in the episode.
00:47:57 Tabby
But there's a specific conversation in this episode that I think was well done.
00:48:00 Tabby
I just don't find the whole.
00:48:04 Tabby
Soldier, I'd follow rules storyline compelling in anything I watch.
00:48:08 Tabby
I can't think of 1 storyline right now in my head where it's like.
00:48:13 Tabby
It's this whole.
00:48:15 Tabby
Rule follower.
00:48:16 Tabby
Someone who doesn't break the rules has to be taught their own autonomy storyline.
00:48:21 Tabby
Interesting, I think just to have land.
00:48:22 Sarah
You know, you know what this reminds me of is I cannot remember his name, but the guy in the new trilogy of Star Wars, I think was his name.
00:48:31 Sarah
Finn, he was set up to be kind of like a Riley character.
00:48:35 Sarah
He was the old he was a Stormtrooper and he was supposed to be like coming out of that.
00:48:42 Sarah
And then he was supposed to break out of that and like.
00:48:44 Sarah
They completely dropped his storyline in the new trilogy.
00:48:46 Sarah
Is his name Finn.
00:48:47 Sarah
Do you guys know what I'm talking about?
00:48:49 Tabby
I think The thing is then I've only seen The Force Awakens or whatever.
00:48:49 Leah
It's been.
00:48:51 Sarah
Is it sin? OK, yeah.
00:48:54 Leah
Only the first one too I.
00:48:55 Tabby
I've seen.
00:48:55 Tabby
OK.
00:48:56 Leah
Haven't seen the other two.
00:48:57 Tabby
Yeah, I haven't.
00:48:58 Sarah
I've seen all of them, but you guys can pretty much guess based on what you've seen and like there's a huge.
00:49:04 Tabby
Remember, I remember that storyline, though in the first one.
00:49:06 Sarah
Yes, and that was a that was a huge moment in the trailers when we saw the Stormtrooper take his helmet off and it wasn't one of the clones that we known, it was a black man.
00:49:09
I liked it.
00:49:16 Sarah
And then we watched him wrestle through with I don't agree with the ideology anymore, and I'm coming out of that.
00:49:22 Sarah
And we're like, whoa, this is so compelling.
00:49:24 Sarah
Is this going to go?
00:49:24 Sarah
Can you use the force?
00:49:25 Sarah
Like he's fighting, I think he picks up a lightsaber at one point, like there were so many interesting things, and then they just dropped the ball.
00:49:32 Sarah
And it's very much like.
00:49:32 Leah
I remember.
00:49:33 Leah
With Riley, he picks up the lightsaber and he.
00:49:36 Leah
Like a sword.
00:49:37 Leah
Like he, you can tell he he doesn't have the sword.
00:49:38 Sarah
Ah yes.
00:49:40 Leah
It was like it was a.
00:49:41 Leah
Complete fake out.
00:49:42 Leah
I remember that cause I was like oh this.
00:49:44 Leah
Is gonna be interesting.
00:49:45 Leah
And then I saw and he literally.
00:49:46 Leah
Uses it as like a.
00:49:47 Leah
Defense it's it's you can tell the way that he uses it.
00:49:51 Leah
It's not like it's not like an extension of his body, it's it's a weapon.
00:49:56 Sarah
But yeah, it was just.
00:49:57 Sarah
It was something that a lot of Star Wars fans are really upset about because they're like, man, this is this was so compelling.
00:50:04 Sarah
This would have been so cool. They really just kind of stopped his storyline and he had something that was similar to Riley's.
00:50:09 Sarah
And so I just, I wonder if like I mean that's two examples of maybe it's too broad of a thing to say, but it feels like a lot of times there's like a really good idea, but.
00:50:18 Sarah
People aren't really sure how to execute it and to to kind of go on with it, but.
00:50:22 Sarah
I feel like they're kind of doing the same thing here with Riley, where they have a really good idea.
00:50:25 Sarah
It's a really compelling thing.
00:50:27 Sarah
Who doesn't want to hear about a guy that's like, been programmed his entire life to think one way and then has his world kind of, like, crumbled beneath him, his foundation?
00:50:36 Sarah
Everyone's had something like that happen at some point in their lives, so it is compelling.
00:50:41 Sarah
I just think they haven't written.
00:50:43 Sarah
Riley very well.
00:50:45 Tabby
And I appreciate.
00:50:46 Tabby
That Riley tries to apologize Philosophised.
00:50:48 Tabby
I was like, you know, like that's.
00:50:49 Sarah
Yes, some especially to Willow.
00:50:49 Tabby
Awesome. Like he.
00:50:50 Tabby
Sat there and he was about to take yes.
00:50:52 Tabby
Like taking accountability and then we was like, hey, like if you help us bring down Adam, then we're even.
00:50:57 Tabby
And and then we have our last dream sequence with faith and like.
00:51:03 Sarah
Chills is so good.
00:51:05 Tabby
I mean, Speaking of like slashers, this is giving me major like Michael Myers. Vibes. Yeah. Like Buffy's walking so slow with just like a knife. And it's so mechanical.
00:51:15 Sarah
She's so scary looking and yeah.
00:51:17 Tabby
At a graveyard and then faith is like sprinting.
00:51:21 Tabby
Like like, terrified.
00:51:23 Tabby
Then this would be so fun as like Sarah Michelle Gellar, who's always played like Buffy, like the protagonist to, like, be this, like, creepy, ominous version of herself.
00:51:29 Sarah
Right.
00:51:33 Tabby
That'd be so fun.
00:51:34 Sarah
To do.
00:51:35 Sarah
I want to talk real fast about the the music here.
00:51:38 Sarah
I'll go into it more later.
00:51:40 Tabby
But this music is.
00:51:41 Sarah
Very, very similar to some of the stuff in hush, and it's also going to be almost the exact same music that's going to be.
00:51:47 Sarah
Used in the later.
00:51:49 Sarah
But I've talked about how.
00:51:50 Sarah
Christoph Beck has done some films that we all know now.
00:51:53 Sarah
He's done frozen too.
00:51:55 Sarah
The soundtrack, so I don't know if you guys remember the siren, the the voice.
00:52:00 Sarah
That calls to Elsa and frozen to.
00:52:01 Tabby
Do we remember?
00:52:04 Sarah
That's the exact same notes and pitch that is used in this this moment.
00:52:08 Sarah
There's like a siren called.
00:52:09 Sarah
There's like this creepy music that happens this this female that vocalizes as fates walking around, and it's the exact same, no.
00:52:17 Sarah
And I was like Christoph Beck.
00:52:18 Sarah
You're just recycling your stuff.
00:52:19 Sarah
Here I mean.
00:52:19 Leah
Can you tell that Sarah has two kids who obsessed over frozen too, as much as like, yeah.
00:52:26 Leah
How do you remember that?
00:52:26 Leah
And I remember the fact that Sawyer, literally his favorite movie, was present to for years, and that's all he wanted to watch.
00:52:33 Leah
Was like never mind.
00:52:33 Tabby
Well, when we lived there during COVID, we watch it like every freaking day.
00:52:37 Tabby
And I remember Gwen.
00:52:39 Tabby
And so we were both saying if you have a video of, so you're singing that siren call.
00:52:44 Leah
Gwen, would you?
00:52:45 Leah
Invent a different movie and then so.
00:52:46 Leah
He would.
00:52:47 Leah
Be like Yep.
00:52:51 Sarah
No, but I also, I love frozen too.
00:52:54 Sarah
I thought it was so great and that show yourself makes me ***.
00:52:57 Sarah
Show and do the next right thing.
00:53:01 Tabby
Gosh, yeah.
00:53:01 Sarah
Every time.
00:53:02 Sarah
Yeah, no.
00:53:03 Sarah
OK, but there's the devil's tritones once again playing there.
00:53:07 Sarah
So if you guys do not listen to our hush analysis, go back and listen to that.
00:53:12 Sarah
Also the music in there, I talk a lot about devil's try tones and all this other stuff.
00:53:16 Sarah
There's also a video that I made on YouTube, so I don't plug this in.
00:53:20 Sarah
But I make a bunch of like analysis videos and I put them on YouTube and I kind of compile our analysis of the episode and they're on our tick tocks on our YouTube, on our Instagram pages I think.
00:53:29 Tabby
Don't know they're on our wall, YouTube.
00:53:30 Sarah
Pretty cool.
00:53:31 Tabby
Dang, yeah.
00:53:31 Sarah
I know. Look at.
00:53:33 Tabby
News to me.
00:53:34 Tabby
Good job, Sir.
00:53:34 Sarah
Kind of sore of like multiple juggling everything.
00:53:38 Sarah
No, check them out.
00:53:40 Sarah
I think they're really interesting.
00:53:41 Sarah
Really informative.
00:53:42 Sarah
And it's kind of a nice way to get a summarization of the analysis that we do of our episode.
00:53:46 Sarah
I don't do it for everyone, but hush.
00:53:48 Sarah
Is on there and you'll learn a lot.
00:53:50 Sarah
Learn a lot, I.
00:53:50 Sarah
Think so.
00:53:51 Sarah
Anyway, all that to say.
00:53:53 Sarah
This is eerie.
00:53:54 Sarah
It's beautiful.
00:53:54 Sarah
It's perfect.
00:53:55 Sarah
I love dream sequences and creepy music.
00:53:58 Sarah
And Buffy not acting like herself.
00:54:00 Sarah
And the symbolism here, and I think it's super interesting that faith comes out victorious, showing that like maybe we're going to see a little bit of immersion of faith with her shadow self, Buffy.
00:54:11 Sarah
But also it's raining.
00:54:12 Sarah
And that's what Faith had told the mayor.
00:54:14 Sarah
She's like it always reigns.
00:54:15 Sarah
And this is her kind of like.
00:54:17 Sarah
Instead of her embracing the life that she wishes, she she she's accepting.
00:54:18 Tabby
Except excuse.
00:54:19 Tabby
Yeah, she's accepting the rain.
00:54:21 Sarah
This is who I am.
00:54:22 Sarah
This is what's gonna happen.
00:54:24 Sarah
She's like, it's like this rageful moment of, like, fine.
00:54:27 Sarah
I'm gonna go seek revenge.
00:54:27 Tabby
And I feel like this dream sequence, like being the last one, is like the pull-ups of of what we saw in like the first dream sequence.
00:54:35 Tabby
Like, oh, her wanting that, you know, camaraderie with Buffy and then this when she's like you.
00:54:40 Tabby
But yeah, like Buffy's the villain. She's trying to kill me. I'm the damsel in distress. I'm gonna come out victorious, and I'm just gonna be where I'm gonna be.
00:54:42
Get up.
00:54:51 Tabby
And yeah.
00:54:52 Tabby
So she, like, crawls out of the grave, it's raining yells and accepts her victory and the rain and then wakes up.
00:55:00 Sarah
The hospital, the male shout.
00:55:03 Sarah
This is not the female shout.
00:55:04 Sarah
The female scream.
00:55:04 Tabby
Yeah, victorious.
00:55:05 Sarah
This is the male shout.
00:55:06 Sarah
Right here.
00:55:07 Sarah
Yep, Yep.
00:55:08 Tabby
That's so true.
00:55:10 Tabby
Oh my gosh, I could be a sub box.
00:55:11 Tabby
Could talk about for.
00:55:12 Tabby
Like it's like.
00:55:12 Sarah
Five hours, dude.
00:55:14 Sarah
Once again.
00:55:15 Tabby
Did you see that interview?
00:55:15 Tabby
Hush analysis.
00:55:17 Tabby
For like the menu.
00:55:18 Tabby
I haven't seen the movie, but the interview with Anya Taylor, Joy talking about like feminine rage women.
00:55:23 Tabby
Yes, she's like.
00:55:25 Tabby
Women tend to and television have horrible things happen to them.
00:55:28 Tabby
And then one single glistening.
00:55:29 Tabby
Here, come down. Yes.
00:55:31 Tabby
And she was like, no, I did not want to do that in.
00:55:33 Tabby
This movie she was like.
00:55:34 Sarah
I was gonna go in glass.
00:55:36 Sarah
Onion man.
00:55:37 Sarah
Talk about female rage.
00:55:39 Tabby
True. Amazing. Loved it. Yep.
00:55:39 Sarah
That was pretty great, yeah.
00:55:43 Tabby
Anyway, so she wakes up in the hospital and this is like my least favorite.
00:55:47 Tabby
Thing that people do and.
00:55:48 Sarah
No, don't talk about it.
00:55:48 Sarah
I know what you're.
00:55:49 Sarah
Gonna do.
00:55:49 Sarah
I know you're gonna say and.
00:55:50 Tabby
It's going to hit me for doing too.
00:55:52 Tabby
But when they like this, just reminded me of, like, remember, isn't it romantic when she pulls it out the blood?
00:55:59 Sarah
Pulling out the Ivy needle.
00:55:59 Tabby
Like when she was out of her arm, is being realistic.
00:56:02 Tabby
It's like an actual realistic.
00:56:04 Tabby
Depiction, you know? Yeah, I.
00:56:06 Sarah
Know every time I'm in the hospital for IV, I just look at it and go.
00:56:07 Leah
I just cringe.
00:56:09 Leah
How do people do that?
00:56:11 Leah
I know.
00:56:12 Tabby
God and none of them are ever.
00:56:14 Tabby
Bleeding out. I'm.
00:56:14 Tabby
Like, OK, yeah.
00:56:17 Tabby
Umm, she walks out from the bottom level and then comes into like this girl who's at the like.
00:56:24 Tabby
I'm like, why is she just down here with a teddy bear like?
00:56:27 Tabby
A bear she.
00:56:27 Sarah
She's a visitor.
00:56:27 Tabby
You said. What is this?
00:56:28 Sarah
She's coming to see someone sick and she got lost.
00:56:31 Sarah
That's why she asks Faith for directions.
00:56:33 Tabby
Oh, and that's why she's probably holding a.
00:56:34 Tabby
Teddy bear, huh? I was.
00:56:35 Tabby
Like this makes no sense to me.
00:56:37 Tabby
And so she, like, asked her, like, about graduation.
00:56:41 Tabby
And then what year it is, what the date is.
00:56:43 Tabby
And the girls just kind of like.
00:56:46 Tabby
Gives her some small like details, but doesn't go into too much. It's OK. I should get you some help, but she does say that kids, the principal and the mayor died and faith spaces like devastated. And then we jumped to saying that faith walks out with that girl's clothes.
00:57:05 Sarah
Now they dressed that girl as innocently as possible to just contract I.
00:57:10 Sarah
Mean what a subtle but powerful detail.
00:57:11 Tabby
But then also Red Riding Hood, jacket and faith is not the Red Riding Hood, but she thinks she is specifically with the last dream.
00:57:21 Tabby
So it's very interesting that they did that.
00:57:24 Tabby
And then this conversation is the one I kind of pointed out earlier.
00:57:27 Tabby
I feel like this is written pretty well.
00:57:29 Tabby
This dorm room conversation between Buffy and Riley, it starts out by saying, like both Buffy and Riley talked about how they never stopped thinking about each other when they were, when they were apart worrying about each other, and he shows it the headband and says it's what got me through it.
00:57:43
Would that be?
00:57:44 Tabby
And and then he kind of keeps looking out the window and.
00:57:47 Tabby
It's like I.
00:57:47 Tabby
Think we're being watched?
00:57:49 Tabby
Kind of like this, like paranoia of like realizing like, oh, I don't know what the initiative is capable of because clearly there's so much that I didn't know and I was on the end.
00:57:58 Tabby
UM, she asked if there's anything she can do and and he's like, well, I don't know.
00:58:03 Tabby
Like, I'm used to giving orders like, that's not how like I've been trained.
00:58:07 Tabby
Like, I feel like I've been groomed to just be this like lapdog for everybody, or just like be given orders and to do what people tell.
00:58:15 Sarah
Me to do.
00:58:15 Sarah
Then Buffy brings up the Council and it's really interesting.
00:58:18 Sarah
First, I didn't really like this conversation, so it's really funny that you said you thought this was really good tabs.
00:58:22 Sarah
UM, I was like, this is kind of dumb because I was like, I don't think Buffy was scared at all to quit the council like she almost like was like, yes, get off my.
00:58:30 Sarah
Back and and I don't really think she ever really saw herself underneath the Council in the 1st place because we really they only meddled one time.
00:58:39 Sarah
Giles was an extension of the Council, but like I never really got the sense that she cared all that much about what the Council thought.
00:58:47 Sarah
So it felt a little bit odd.
00:58:49 Leah
Even in the very first episode when Buffy meets Giles and then Giles says something about her needing to be this way, or she kind of tells him to like F off and it said she's like, dude like you owe me.
00:59:01 Leah
You don't know what I go through.
00:59:03 Leah
Like so.
00:59:04 Leah
It's like, even before Giles, Buffy really didn't care.
00:59:09 Tabby
I'm more talking about from Riley's perspective. Like we can see a little bit more about Riley's psyche.
00:59:13 Tabby
But then also like Buffy tries to connect with.
00:59:16 Tabby
Him in the.
00:59:17 Tabby
And then he asks her.
00:59:18 Tabby
He's like.
00:59:18 Tabby
But did you follow any of the rules?
00:59:19 Tabby
And she goes.
00:59:21 Tabby
And so, like, like, she kind of catches up herself.
00:59:24 Tabby
Me, like, maybe this is in the same situation, like, clearly there's a disconnect between these two people.
00:59:26
MM.
00:59:29 Tabby
And even in this moment when they're trying to have this.
00:59:32 Tabby
Oh, I've been through something similar.
00:59:34 Tabby
It's not quite the same, so I think that it was written in that sense to show that like the difference between them and what Riley specifically going through, that's what I mean.
00:59:43 Tabby
By like like.
00:59:44 Sarah
That's fair.
00:59:45 Tabby
Showing that this good conversation because it's showing like.
00:59:48 Tabby
This is a little bit more interesting to me than than him like talking to Forrest or Graham or like trying to get out like that's boring to me, but it's like when you like.
00:59:58 Tabby
You know, contrast both Buffy and Riley in this situation and she's hard because it's like we're supposed to be rooting for this couple.
01:00:08 Tabby
This is not the conversation where I'm.
01:00:09 Tabby
Like, yes, good job.
01:00:12 Tabby
If those sort of things.
01:00:13 Tabby
A month?
01:00:13 Tabby
Think you can?
01:00:16 Tabby
No, totally.
01:00:17 Tabby
Do you think this really works?
01:00:19 Sarah
Or right? Well, it was so interesting cause like, like I said, I was like, this is dumb conversation. But then I thought about it a little bit further on Riley's end.
01:00:25 Sarah
And like, yes, you're right on it's hard because I see on Buffy's side and then Riley side, they're both so good on their own.
01:00:32 Sarah
But then you put.
01:00:32 Sarah
Them together and there supposed to be a.
01:00:33 Sarah
Romantic relationship?
01:00:34 Sarah
You're just like it's.
01:00:35 Sarah
Just not working for me.
01:00:36 Tabby
Somehow it's so dull.
01:00:38 Sarah
Yeah, but this episode is prepping us for faith and is trying to call us back to season three.
01:00:44 Sarah
Remind us that a big reason Buffy did quit the Council.
01:00:47 Sarah
And the reason she even got the courage to do so was because of faith.
01:00:51 Sarah
Faith was the one who encouraged her not to follow orders and to think independently, not always in a healthy way.
01:00:57 Sarah
But she was key in buffys growth and development as a Slayer, because, again, there was Aw.
01:01:01 Sarah
Whole like immersion of the the shadow self.
01:01:04 Sarah
So this calls back to choice and finding your own way.
01:01:08 Sarah
And that was everything that season three was about.
01:01:11 Sarah
And so we're shown right here in this that Buffy has grown, she has fully integrated with her shadow self.
01:01:17 Sarah
Faith no longer needs her.
01:01:20 Sarah
So this is once again a reinforcement.
01:01:22 Sarah
Of hey, this episode is not going to be about what faith is going to teach Buffy.
01:01:25 Sarah
This episode is going to be about what, Buffy?
01:01:27 Sarah
Is gonna teach faith and so.
01:01:29 Sarah
Again centering Buffy as the linchpin of the episode here for both Riley and Faith is key to make making her the emotional center of the season once.
01:01:40 Sarah
So I was like, OK, I see what they're doing in this conversation.
01:01:43 Sarah
I just don't think it worked exactly for what they wanted it to, romantically wise, but it worked for.
01:01:48 Tabby
Oh yeah, romantically.
01:01:49 Tabby
Absolutely not.
01:01:50 Tabby
No, for sure.
01:01:51 Tabby
Yeah, maybe I'm being too harsh on the fact that they're both supposed to.
01:01:54 Tabby
Be 20 years old, but.
01:01:55 Tabby
Like it?
01:01:56 Tabby
Like she's having to sit here and kind of tell him hey.
01:01:59 Sarah
You need mother, he.
01:02:00 Tabby
To be.
01:02:01 Tabby
Mommy, you need to like you know, you know, say that.
01:02:06 Tabby
Find yourself.
01:02:07 Tabby
Move on.
01:02:08 Tabby
Giving him a step by step and.
01:02:10 Tabby
He's like but.
01:02:10 Sarah
She's given him orders.
01:02:10
You know if.
01:02:11 Tabby
I if I'm not a soldier and she is like a good person.
01:02:15 Tabby
A good man.
01:02:17 Sarah
Yeah, you have more to you than just being a soldier, but if you can't see past that, I don't see.
01:02:22 Sarah
This working just saying.
01:02:23 Tabby
And just like, OK, Oh my gosh, the non reciprocal sexual affection that Riley gives Buffy slash Marc Blucas in these scenes and makes me my whole body.
01:02:34 Tabby
Just go.
01:02:36 Tabby
I just get like she's like straddling him, kissing his head, and he's just sitting there.
01:02:41 Tabby
He doesn't put his arm around her until, like, halfway through.
01:02:44 Tabby
And I'm like, I just like.
01:02:50 Leah
It's a bitter and I not like triggering.
01:02:53 Leah
I guess it's just traumatizing, like just watching it.
01:02:55 Leah
It's like like.
01:02:58 Leah
It's just like I know.
01:02:59 Leah
You're supposed to feel wrong about it.
01:03:01 Tabby
Are we?
01:03:04 Tabby
I don't think we are.
01:03:05 Tabby
I don't think we are.
01:03:06 Tabby
But it's just.
01:03:07 Tabby
That's the problem with this whole season.
01:03:09 Leah
Yeah, like.
01:03:11 Leah
There's no way that you're.
01:03:13 Leah
Supposed to feel good about those?
01:03:14 Sarah
Things I think you are, but yeah, I don't.
01:03:16 Sarah
I walk away.
01:03:16 Leah
So bad.
01:03:17 Sarah
It feels like she's she's mothering him, just like Maggie Walsh.
01:03:20 Sarah
I mean that tied with the the whole, like, I just need someone to give me orders and puppies basically telling him, like, this is what you can do here.
01:03:27 Sarah
Your choices.
01:03:28 Sarah
And like all this other stuff, it's kind of like Riley.
01:03:30 Sarah
Who are you, apart from women?
01:03:31 Tabby
She's still giving him choices, though, like she's like, here's the.
01:03:32 Leah
Also likes.
01:03:35 Sarah
Two things that I said she's.
01:03:35 Tabby
That's you do.
01:03:36 Tabby
And he's like ah.
01:03:37 Sarah
Feed on him, yeah.
01:03:37 Leah
Also, that's so embarrassing to be like.
01:03:39 Leah
I need someone to give me orders.
01:03:40 Leah
It's like maybe think for yourself.
01:03:45 Tabby
I know that's too hard.
01:03:49 Sarah
Too much?
01:03:49 Sarah
Not a thought in his head.
01:03:50 Tabby
I think it's.
01:03:50 Leah
Just like it's just awkward too, to like, go from like talking about, like giving orders and stuff like kissing.
01:03:56 Leah
And like.
01:03:57 Sarah
Unless that's Riley's kink. No, no, no.
01:04:00 Tabby
Probably is absolutely he's a bottom.
01:04:03 Leah
Bottom I'm trying not to hate slightly.
01:04:05 Sarah
I mean, what was? What was the episode, was it it was. It was the IN team. I mean Riley.
01:04:11 Sarah
Was was on.
01:04:12 Sarah
The bottom.
01:04:13 Leah
That's what I'd be saying, that's what.
01:04:15 Sarah
I know I agree with you.
01:04:16 Leah
I've been saying.
01:04:17 Sarah
I'm backing you up.
01:04:17 Sarah
I've got the evidence anyway.
01:04:20 Sarah
All right, moving on tape ain't watching that tape again.
01:04:20 Leah
Roll the.
01:04:24 Tabby
No, no, thank you.
01:04:24 Tabby
Please put on hold tape.
01:04:25 Sarah
You can roll the I'm.
01:04:26 Sarah
Gonna do something else.
01:04:27 Sarah
I'm gonna watch this episode again.
01:04:29 Sarah
Then we have this scene where the, like, Faithe nurse is, like, frantic is like, oh, my gosh.
01:04:35 Tabby
Oh, my gosh. OK, wait, hold on. This nurse is like a random side character and like so many sitcoms in the 2000s, not sitcoms. But, like, you know, parks are.
01:04:35 Sarah
I don't know what happened.
01:04:45 Tabby
Check with the episode where Ron is like forced to have his office in the dead center of the Parks and Rec, and he's.
01:04:51 Tabby
Like the the spinny chair.
01:04:53 Tabby
She's the she's the girl who comes in.
01:04:55 Tabby
It's like, Sir, Sir.
01:04:58 Tabby
And then runs her.
01:04:58 Sarah
That's funny.
01:04:58 Tabby
She keeps walking around and choosing something else, but I can't remember.
01:05:00 Sarah
That's really funny, tabs.
01:05:03 Leah
But I keep.
01:05:03 Tabby
Singing, popping up in like random shows that I'm watching as just funny, but yeah, she's the nurse and stuff so.
01:05:08 Sarah
That's hilarious.
01:05:10 Sarah
Yeah, she like, lets the detective know that faith is gone.
01:05:13 Sarah
They're like, oh, my gosh, you had, like, a known killer here and you didn't tell anyone.
01:05:18 Sarah
Why is she here?
01:05:19 Sarah
And they're like, well, she was in a coma and blah, blah, blah.
01:05:21 Sarah
And then at the very end, the nurse, the script even says, like, her frantic demeanor goes away, and she immediately becomes deadpan.
01:05:28 Sarah
And then she grabs the phone and she's like, it's happened.
01:05:31 Sarah
Send the team and you're like, oh, no.
01:05:33 Tabby
Honestly, it's a.
01:05:33 Tabby
Good question though, why we have cameras in that bottom level.
01:05:38 Tabby
You know they.
01:05:39 Tabby
Have the whole the part of the hospital and it's supposed to be this like.
01:05:42 Tabby
Convicted. I don't know.
01:05:44 Sarah
Yeah, well, yeah, I I have no idea.
01:05:47 Sarah
I think they genuinely.
01:05:47 Sarah
Well, I mean, they didn't think she was gonna come out of the coma.
01:05:49 Sarah
So why?
01:05:50 Sarah
Why waste all that money on someone who's just not going to get out of it?
01:05:54 Sarah
But yeah.
01:05:56 Sarah
So this next scene Faithe walking down the street I wrote.
01:05:59 Sarah
Ah yes, the obligatory I don't know where I am.
01:06:02 Sarah
The world has changed.
01:06:03 Sarah
Walk down Main Street.
01:06:04 Sarah
We had this with Vamp.
01:06:06 Sarah
Willow wish.
01:06:07 Sarah
Cordy and the music is the same in Hush and we have like all.
01:06:10 Sarah
Fathers and daughters like going out and doing things, and it's just it's funny.
01:06:14 Sarah
This happens every single time.
01:06:17 Sarah
And then we have faith going to the windowsill, looking into the window, just like we're saying.
01:06:22 Tabby
Oh well, she first says the high school.
01:06:24 Sarah
Too. Oh that yes.
01:06:25 Tabby
High school closed down and that opens up, yeah.
01:06:26 Leah
Which that was kind of cool to see.
01:06:28 Leah
I I like every time I.
01:06:29 Leah
Kind of.
01:06:29 Leah
See the high school glimpses.
01:06:31 Leah
Of it, I'm like, oh, we're still in Sunnyvale.
01:06:31 Tabby
It makes me sad I miss.
01:06:33 Sarah
That that one shot was better than all of doomed inside of the.
01:06:41 Tabby
The dental floss rope that tied Buffy.
01:06:44 Sarah
The special like military.
01:06:47 Tabby
Rope the five minutes.
01:06:48 Tabby
Of the demon falling before Buffy jumps in afterwards to grab it.
01:06:52 Sarah
Don't even don't get me started.
01:06:54 Tabby
We're all traumatized in the episode.
01:06:56 Sarah
This next scene with Faith coming into John's courtyard, reminded me so much of pangs.
01:07:00 Sarah
We talked a lot about doorways and Windows and people on the outside looking in, and we have spike with his blanket.
01:07:07 Sarah
Like looking over into.
01:07:08 Sarah
Like you know, the family of vampires feasting on a human, and then we have Angel looking in.
01:07:13 Sarah
And it's this idea of like, an outsider wanting in with the family atmosphere and aspect.
01:07:18 Sarah
And it's really interesting because the fire in the fireplace in this scene was actually a huge ordeal to produce.
01:07:25 Sarah
It was a real fire, so it required a fire Marshall on set and then a certain number of fire.
01:07:29 Sarah
Extinguishers on the ready and Douglas Petrie said that he felt that the ordeal was worth it because the scene needed to feel homey and cozy because it needed to contrast what faith was feeling on the outside and and it just feels very much like spike with the blanket looking.
01:07:44 Tabby
And Speaking of outside looking in, we now see faith kind of looking through the window of Giles's house and like this whole injection we're talking about Adam, like, she just keeps scanning and looking at, like Buffy and Riley.
01:07:58 Tabby
You can see her being like I just feel like I can see Eliza Dish could just such an amazing job because I can see the different thoughts that she's having.
01:08:05 Tabby
As every time she kind of peers back at the couple, it's like first of, like, huh.
01:08:11 Tabby
And then it's like a ohh you little slimy weasel.
01:08:14 Tabby
You're not even with Angel.
01:08:16 Tabby
But just like like, oh, I can use this or like interesting.
01:08:20 Tabby
Like, there's just like, there's so much going on her brain that she's, like, very confused, but then also just being like, oh, of course, like, she's not surprised at all.
01:08:26 Leah
But I like that we're seeing such an intelligent fighter player that isn't just immediately reacting, going and fighting Buffy because we know that probably last season, that's like, that's more of what she would have done.
01:08:38 Leah
But we're seeing her observe and kind of gain information and then make a plan which is like.
01:08:46 Leah
Like I like when.
01:08:47 Leah
You know.
01:08:48 Leah
Antagonist or things like that are actually intelligent rather than just being like, you know charging in.
01:08:54 Tabby
Yeah, Mary, yeah.
01:08:56 Tabby
Well, and then she's kind of biting her time.
01:08:58 Tabby
Like, she's, like, waiting it out.
01:08:59 Tabby
And then Giles gets a call and then hands it to Buffy.
01:09:03 Tabby
Then she kind of, like, puts two together.
01:09:05 Tabby
So that's probably about me.
01:09:06 Tabby
And then.
01:09:06 Tabby
She like, leave.
01:09:09 Tabby
And then Buffy tells everyone that faith is awake.
01:09:12 Tabby
Kind of goes into her classic Buffy speech.
01:09:16 Leah
But the Buffy is like.
01:09:17 Tabby
So like optimistic about faith.
01:09:20 Tabby
And I wish that faith, I know why they did it, but I wish that.
01:09:23 Tabby
Faith was there so she could hear.
01:09:25 Tabby
Her like talking about her and.
01:09:28 Tabby
It's so frustrating.
01:09:30 Tabby
I understand.
01:09:32 Sarah
Yeah, yeah.
01:09:33 Sarah
We can't have faith getting to that point yet.
01:09:35 Sarah
A couple of observations about this scene though.
01:09:38 Sarah
So the first thing was they asked Riley to be a double agent, so now he Riley is going to basically share information from the initiative, which I thought was interesting and will actually give him something to do.
01:09:48 Sarah
The second thing is, and this is a big.
01:09:50 Sarah
Question is.
01:09:51 Sarah
Who called Buffy?
01:09:53 Sarah
It wasn't the Witches Council, because we know that's who the nurse call.
01:09:57 Sarah
So who's the one?
01:09:58 Sarah
Was it the?
01:09:58 Sarah
Nurse like it.
01:10:00 Sarah
I mean, Buffy could have put herself as the emergency contact.
01:10:02 Leah
Have they thought about?
01:10:03 Sarah
Of this thing.
01:10:04 Sarah
Yeah, there's there's, like, a glare.
01:10:05 Sarah
I mean, there's some options, some ideas maybe, but it's like kind of like I don't see any situation which Buffy would be the one.
01:10:11 Sarah
That they would call.
01:10:13 Leah
If they're gonna put Buffy as her emergency contact when she moved to actually know, what would she even like?
01:10:23 Leah
No, I don't understand.
01:10:24 Leah
Maybe Childs, maybe Giles.
01:10:27 Leah
I was guessing.
01:10:28 Leah
Maybe Giles put FS emergency contact like.
01:10:32 Leah
When would they have time to do that?
01:10:33 Sarah
Yeah, I don't know it.
01:10:35 Sarah
There's just kind of like a a big hole here.
01:10:37 Sarah
You're like, OK, who did?
01:10:38 Sarah
But regardless, they had to get the information to puppy.
01:10:40 Sarah
They got it to puppy.
01:10:41 Sarah
It's fine.
01:10:42 Sarah
But on your point Tappy about how Buffy immediately goes to the she might be scared she might be alone, like she immediately goes to putting herself in faithe shoes.
01:10:53 Sarah
Wanting to help faith.
01:10:56 Sarah
Instead of like a Willow who was all like, oh, let's just.
01:10:58 Sarah
Go kill her just turned.
01:10:59 Tabby
Will wait.
01:11:00 Tabby
I was going to say yes.
01:11:01 Tabby
I was going to say that I was waiting till the second time.
01:11:01 Sarah
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:11:04 Tabby
She says it, but it's like it's almost as if, like Willow.
01:11:09 Tabby
Again, there's so much in this episode.
01:11:12 Tabby
If you watched it without the context of season three, you'd be very like torn between the different like pieces of information that we're getting here, like season 3.
01:11:24 Tabby
Buffy did not want to hurt faith.
01:11:26 Tabby
She did every precaution she could until literally graduation, part one where like she was like at her last straw and killing faith was the only option in her head and she didn't want to do it like that was the first time they ever fought.
01:11:42 Tabby
They didn't even fight before that even, I mean.
01:11:44 Tabby
They they didn't. Uhm.
01:11:46 Tabby
They didn't enemies, but that was like, yeah.
01:11:49 Tabby
But again, that was like life or death, you know?
01:11:54 Tabby
But she didn't want to do it again.
01:11:55 Tabby
There they were.
01:11:56 Tabby
So many situations that happened that build up to that, but it's like the fact it's like Buffy hated doing that.
01:12:01 Tabby
Buffy didn't want to do that.
01:12:02 Tabby
It's not like she just was like, I'm going to do some asskicking on faith.
01:12:05 Tabby
Just because she just wanted to.
01:12:07 Tabby
So the fact that it's like willows saying that.
01:12:11 Tabby
It's so frustrating because it's like Buffy didn't.
01:12:13 Tabby
That's not who Buffy is.
01:12:14 Tabby
That's not how, Buffy.
01:12:15 Tabby
Wants to treat faith, you know.
01:12:16 Leah
By the two Willow.
01:12:17 Leah
Is I think that that's the important thing about the scene is that Willow snow.
01:12:21 Tabby
Doesn't want to take the steps.
01:12:24 Leah
I'm trying to say this without like I'm trying to say this delicately.
01:12:30 Leah
I do not think that Willow is necessarily.
01:12:35 Leah
I think that we get the impression in the first few seasons of Buffy that was this, like, very.
01:12:43 Leah
Kind tempered person.
01:12:45 Leah
She would never have to fly.
01:12:48 Leah
I'm not saying the will isn't pinned, I'm just saying that I think that because Willow is shy, we automatically tie that in with kindness and like that and innocence.
01:12:59 Sarah
In a sense.
01:13:00 Sarah
In a sense.
01:13:00 Leah
Yes, thank you.
01:13:02 Leah
Whereas I don't think it will is necessarily an innocent character.
01:13:05 Leah
I think that she is a.
01:13:08 Leah
More shy character, but I think that we see an insecure character, but I think that we see that as well as gaining confidence with magic and herself and all that.
01:13:23 Leah
A bit more of a biting edge to her.
01:13:27 Leah
We've seen that with some of the spells that she's tried to cast.
01:13:31 Leah
We've seen that.
01:13:33 Leah
Just in general, she has this kind of sense of.
01:13:38 Leah
If people, if she feels like people have long toes, she has, she feels justified in her actions, body does not have that lobby, I think because Buffy bears the burden of being the Slayer, she is a lot more cautious because she knows the repercussions, whereas Willow is a lot more quick.
01:13:59 Leah
Kind of react.
01:14:02 Leah
And I think that, you know, Willow always had it off from the very beginning. She didn't like the fact that she took quote, UN quote Buffy from her. She didn't like the fact that she, quote, UN quote, took Xander from her.
01:14:16 Leah
You know, Willow always kind of had.
01:14:20 Leah
This issue with faith some of that justifies some of it, no?
01:14:24 Leah
But and I think that she now feels that it's justified to take that anger out on faith because faith did so many helpful things in season three that she thinks it's OK to just kill her, get rid of her because, you know, think that all these evil things. There's, like, Buffy's coming out of us like, no. Like, this is someone who.
01:14:45 Leah
We fought with and someone that we knew, and it's a human life on top of the fact.
01:14:49 Leah
That it's another.
01:14:50 Leah
Slayer, like Buffy, views her a lot more objectively than Willow does.
01:14:55 Leah
I think Willow is a lot more.
01:14:59 Leah
She's going out this whole very hot angle and I know a lot of people that I knew not like that because a lot of people love her and I love the little too.
01:15:08 Leah
But I don't view Willow as this innocent character who would never hurt a fly.
01:15:14 Leah
And I think a lot.
01:15:15 Leah
Of people do.
01:15:16 Sarah
It's hard because, well, Willow initially did like faith, but it all changed when faith slept with Xander and Xander, slept with faith, and that has colored her view of faith ever since.
01:15:29 Sarah
And like, obviously there was the hurt there.
01:15:31 Sarah
When faith and Buffy started hanging out more.
01:15:34 Sarah
But it was never quite like it was when she was mad at faith.
01:15:38 Sarah
And, well, she's she's never mad at.
01:15:41 Sarah
There's just misogynistic undertones here.
01:15:43 Sarah
She's not upset at Xander for sleeping with faith.
01:15:46 Sarah
She's upset at faith and like, even when the whole thing happened with Veruca, she compares Veruca with faith like, you know, voice, like an albatross.
01:15:54 Sarah
And you know, dress like a ******.
01:15:55 Tabby
The dress seems Yep.
01:15:56 Sarah
She makes some sort of.
01:15:57 Sarah
Yeah, something.
01:15:58 Sarah
That so it's just kind of like will have some things that she needs to work out.
01:16:03 Sarah
And it's it's frustrating cause we see her kind of treat on you this way.
01:16:06 Sarah
And I'm like Willow.
01:16:08 Sarah
You're like, let's just say it.
01:16:10 Sarah
You're with Tara now.
01:16:11 Sarah
It's not been like, explicit yet, but you're with Tara.
01:16:14 Sarah
It's implied heavily.
01:16:15 Sarah
Why are you still hung up on the fact on someone that never even was your boyfriend?
01:16:19 Sarah
Something you cheated on?
01:16:20 Sarah
I don't know.
01:16:21 Sarah
I just find.
01:16:23 Sarah
Honestly, yeah, what it is.
01:16:23 Tabby
Control and the people in her life that will.
01:16:26 Tabby
That's the attention on her.
01:16:28 Tabby
You know what I.
01:16:28 Tabby
Mean like if it's like.
01:16:30 Tabby
And I can give her some, like, some excuses for, like, the whole Buffy and faith thing.
01:16:36 Tabby
Like when that happened in the beginning of season three, I really felt her pain.
01:16:39 Tabby
It was like they would go and and she would make make Buffy would make comments about, like, oh, the Slayer thing.
01:16:40 Sarah
Right.
01:16:44 Tabby
But Buffy was trying to protect Willow because she saw darkness and faith.
01:16:48 Tabby
So it's like again, it's very nuanced.
01:16:50 Tabby
I understand that perspective and it's like and.
01:16:54 Tabby
I know I got crap, but it's like in season three, when she's crying in the bathroom.
01:16:58 Tabby
I know now that it's like it, it was multi layered.
01:17:01 Tabby
Why she was crying?
01:17:02 Tabby
But it it's like you have no right to be upset about somebody losing their virginity when you're in a relationship.
01:17:09 Tabby
And I know there are other reasons why she was upset, but it's like this whole like control thing or like.
01:17:14 Tabby
Or just people.
01:17:16 Tabby
Like taking their attention away from her, someone said or has a new girlfriend she armed with his like the new girlfriend because they're besties her whole life, but he hasn't done that with her like he liked us, you know.
01:17:27 Sarah
And I'm sure it's more it's multi layered.
01:17:29 Sarah
I'm sure that Willow it's not that a romantic interest in Xander anymore because there's also the aspect of faith tried to assault.
01:17:36 Sarah
Xander and almost killed him.
01:17:38 Sarah
So yes, Willow being upset about those things is justified.
01:17:42 Sarah
You don't get the sense all the time, though, that those are the.
01:17:44 Sarah
Reasons though it.
01:17:45 Sarah
Feels like what you guys are saying feels like a central thing.
01:17:45 Tabby
Yeah, well, even she said in season three, she says.
01:17:49 Tabby
She says I have an issue with faith.
01:17:50 Sarah
I don't like for sharing my people.
01:17:51 Tabby
Yes, with sharing my things or taking my things or whatever it is like, that's.
01:17:55 Sarah
Yes, which is concerning.
01:17:55 Tabby
What it is?
01:17:58 Sarah
And we see that symptom with when she's talking about us and something blue.
01:18:02 Sarah
It's interesting that her heart desire.
01:18:05 Sarah
It wasn't to like, have us come back, but like it's to.
01:18:09 Sarah
OK, I'm going to change my emotions.
01:18:11 Sarah
She just didn't like that I that that, that feeling of that lack of control and that spreads to the people around her so.
01:18:17 Tabby
So outside of campus, will and Buffy are talking about.
01:18:22 Tabby
What Buffy specifically told Riley about faith?
01:18:25 Tabby
And she's like, hey, like you have bits and pieces, but not like the entire story.
01:18:29 Tabby
She glossed over the whole Angel bit, which I actually like.
01:18:33 Tabby
I don't blame Bobby for like, that's that is like a different conversation.
01:18:37 Tabby
You have to sit down and you have to really go into like, you know when like you're dating somebody and it's like there's some parts about yourself that you're like.
01:18:44 Tabby
I'm not withholding. I'm just.
01:18:47 Tabby
Like, there's certain stuff that you need to preface before you get to the big stuff that you have to talk about in your life and it's like, it's not like you're lying to them.
01:18:55 Tabby
It's not that you're like being deceptive.
01:18:56 Tabby
It's like there are moments and times where you have to sit down and really just give a whole evening to spelling out everything.
01:19:03 Tabby
And that wasn't when everyone else.
01:19:05 Tabby
Was in the room, you know?
01:19:05 Leah
And there's there's.
01:19:06 Leah
Also, a difference between being like, hey, yeah I had.
01:19:10 Leah
Loved him.
01:19:12 Leah
It didn't work out and being like, let me divulge this very detailed thing that happened where we had to, you know, it was like this life altering moment.
01:19:24 Leah
It was, you know, there's so many emotions, so many connections like.
01:19:28 Leah
Obviously it's hard to translate in that into like vampire life, but it's like there is a difference between like telling a complete something like, hey, me and my boyfriend broke me and my ex-boyfriend broke up.
01:19:38 Leah
You know, a couple.
01:19:38 Leah
Of years ago, whatever.
01:19:39 Leah
Giving them the details or.
01:19:41 Leah
Giving them the.
01:19:42 Leah
Overall without being.
01:19:43 Leah
Like it was in the hearts breakups of my life.
01:19:45 Leah
I was depressed.
01:19:46 Leah
For months after like those.
01:19:47 Leah
Are two different conversations.
01:19:48 Tabby
I've had to kill him.
01:19:49 Leah
Yeah, like, those are two different conversations of, like, this is what happened.
01:19:52 Leah
And then this is what happened in detail.
01:19:55 Sarah
Angel is a part of Buffys past, so it's going to come up when, as Riley is learning about bug.
01:20:00 Sarah
But he's not angels, not a part of their relationship right now.
01:20:03 Sarah
But he hasn't even seen Angel since they started dating.
01:20:06 Sarah
So it's it's not like, OK, we need to sit down and have a conversation about it, because Angel affects buffys.
01:20:12 Sarah
Life right now.
01:20:13 Sarah
They will eventually have to have a conversation, but I don't get the sense that, like, yeah, and her saying, like, she's not withholding it or whatever, you know?
01:20:20 Sarah
I I think that I I actually believe Buffy when she says that you.
01:20:25 Tabby
Yeah, absolutely.
01:20:26 Tabby
It just wasn't the time like there's.
01:20:28 Tabby
So much that's happening right now, you know.
01:20:29 Sarah
And to be fair, there's been a lot that's been happening, so I don't fault Buffy like we haven't had the chance for that kind of.
01:20:34 Sarah
Conversation yet?
01:20:34 Sarah
Although again, this episode is setting up a lot of things and they brought up Angel and then they bring up the whole like Riley's like, who's faith? And then you have that moment where Buffy doesn't really fully tell.
01:20:46 Sarah
Riley, who faith is and you could tell that she's worried that Riley or Faith's going to hurt.
01:20:51 Sarah
Someone she loves.
01:20:53 Sarah
And then she goes to Joyce and.
01:20:54 Sarah
I'm like, oh.
01:20:55 Sarah
I kind of get the sense the storm is brewing here.
01:20:58 Tabby
And I'm like.
01:20:58 Tabby
Yeah, this is just the thing planted.
01:20:59 Sarah
Things that haven't been brought up, and it's no one's fault, but I'm kind.
01:21:04 Sarah
Of like oh boy, this is this.
01:21:06 Sarah
Is going to explode.
01:21:07 Tabby
Uh, so they continue talking in the buffys like if.
01:21:10 Tabby
I were faith.
01:21:11 Tabby
I'd stay as far away from here.
01:21:13 Tabby
And then, lo and behold, faith turns around.
01:21:15 Tabby
It's like, well, you're not me.
01:21:17 Tabby
I when I.
01:21:18 Tabby
Remember first watching this episode, I was.
01:21:20 Sarah
Yeah, again.
01:21:21 Sarah
Important though that the first words out of faithe mouth to Buffy, to her shadow side is your not me.
01:21:26 Tabby
Hmm. Separates yourself.
01:21:29 Tabby
Yep, Yep.
01:21:30 Tabby
And then she's, like, kind of talking to Buffy, being like, hey, like, check you out.
01:21:34 Tabby
Big, big girl on campus.
01:21:36 Tabby
Is working out for you and then Buffy's like, hey, like, I've been looking for you.
01:21:41 Tabby
I just keep making jokes and like, hey, like, oh, I've been standing so for eight months like.
01:21:45 Tabby
How hard you look?
01:21:46 Tabby
There's so much bitterness and faiths tone in this conversation.
01:21:50 Tabby
Like she's like.
01:21:52 Tabby
Ohh like like I just keep thinking about the fact that you tried to kill me.
01:21:55 Tabby
Not for yourself, but for a boyfriend not even dating anymore.
01:21:59 Tabby
And he could tell buff.
01:22:00 Tabby
He's just like you don't know anything about me like.
01:22:03 Tabby
This whole conversation is just.
01:22:05 Tabby
Faith, like there's clearly something faith is really just bitter and angry about when it comes to.
01:22:10 Leah
Buffy. Well, she.
01:22:11 Sarah
Says you took my life, you know.
01:22:13 Leah
It's also like maybe there's not the victim.
01:22:16 Leah
Bobby did everything she could not to try and kill fate.
01:22:20 Leah
They what?
01:22:21 Leah
What Buffy did was purely reactionary and self-defense, and I just think that he doesn't see it that.
01:22:29 Sarah
Well, and faith, faith doesn't want to see it that way.
01:22:31 Sarah
Faith wants to deflect because she doesn't want to take responsibility for her actions.
01:22:35 Sarah
She doesn't want to admit that she had a choice.
01:22:37 Sarah
She wants to say I had no choice because I don't want to admit that what I did was messed up.
01:22:41 Sarah
But I mean, like Buffy, saying these are innocent people.
01:22:44 Sarah
Faith saying no such animal if no one is actually innocent, then that means that I'm justified in killing or whatever because other people are guilty.
01:22:51 Sarah
Too it's super fasting, so the script initially had it written that Buffy was going to be the one that threw the first punch.
01:23:02 Sarah
Douglas Petrie had written that and Joss actually rejected that and he said he felt that it was too unsympathetic to hit a girl who had just been in a coma.
01:23:10 Sarah
But also Buffy is incredibly sympathetic in this episode.
01:23:14 Sarah
I think it would have been against her character, at least in this episode, to have struck faith 1st, and I like that conscious decision.
01:23:21 Tabby
Thought these strikes.
01:23:21 Tabby
1st when it's like a clear villain, I've never seen her strike first.
01:23:25 Tabby
When it's like a a grey somewhere in the middle.
01:23:29 Leah
Character but also.
01:23:29 Tabby
They're usually the one who starts the 1st.
01:23:30 Leah
We've never seen Buffy strike face first.
01:23:33 Leah
And unless it was a little.
01:23:34 Leah
Like you just killed someone.
01:23:36 Leah
Or I need to kill you to save Angel.
01:23:39 Leah
It's every other time.
01:23:41 Leah
She's literally tried to talk faith out of it every other time.
01:23:45 Sarah
She she strikes first in graduation day, Part 2 in their big showdown, but that was very.
01:23:50 Sarah
Clearly like Buffy haired.
01:23:50 Leah
But but that.
01:23:51 Leah
But that's what I'm saying.
01:23:52 Leah
But it's also like.
01:23:54 Leah
You're literally about to cause the hell mouth to be like here.
01:23:59 Leah
I don't have time to sit here and talk to you.
01:24:01 Leah
You need to be put out.
01:24:01 Sarah
Sure. Justify. Yes.
01:24:02 Leah
Of the way.
01:24:03 Leah
Yeah, it wasn't.
01:24:04 Leah
Like you know, oh, there was a it was like, no, you need to be put out of the equation because I.
01:24:09 Leah
Need to save people.
01:24:10 Tabby
Well, she even says like.
01:24:12 Tabby
Like you had it coming and Speaking of like, the way the actors deliver lines like sammichele killer chose on paper, you could say this so many different ways and it would be a different response every time.
01:24:25 Tabby
She could have sat there and be like you had it coming.
01:24:28 Tabby
We would have very different scene there.
01:24:30 Tabby
But she says.
01:24:30 Leah
It softly.
01:24:32 Tabby
Almost as if, like she's saying, like faith, you know you had it coming.
01:24:37 Tabby
Like it's stern, but it's like soft at the same time, like man, so much like, like, just can't say a simple line without me thinking like 5 different ways that she's thinking.
01:24:47 Tabby
Or like the way that she's trying to interpret this line like again, it it could have been so snarky.
01:24:53 Tabby
Like, I'm just thinking, like CW, like Vampire Diaries, the way that they would say.
01:24:56 Tabby
It they'd be.
01:24:57 Tabby
Like you had it coming, like nostrils flowing.
01:24:59 Tabby
And it's like there's like little dimension there, you know.
01:25:04 Tabby
So so not.
01:25:05 Tabby
Very different types of shows.
01:25:06 Tabby
I need to stop doing that because it's a very different.
01:25:08 Tabby
Type of show.
01:25:08 Tabby
But like with this one, it's.
01:25:10 Tabby
Like it it's supposed to be a little bit more confusing than that, you know?
01:25:14 Tabby
Hear sirens, cops come up and then faith beats them up.
01:25:17 Tabby
Runs away.
01:25:18 Tabby
Buffy falls her but then ends up losing her.
01:25:21 Tabby
And then we see Willow and Tara hanging out in the lounge.
01:25:24 Tabby
And then Willow, like, fully tells Tara about faith, which is interesting because it's like you could tell that she told her the entire story, whereas Buffy didn't tell that story of faith until I seen absence.
01:25:35 Leah
Riley also.
01:25:39 Leah
Given the context.
01:25:41 Leah
Faith and Buffy went through way more than Willow, and she's like, it's almost like telling someone like, hey, my friend and her ex-boyfriend broke up in this way versus like me and my ex-boyfriend.
01:25:46 Tabby
Yes, sure.
01:25:54 Leah
Like there is a difference.
01:25:55 Leah
There was a different level.
01:25:57 Leah
There was a different relationship.
01:25:58 Leah
Willow was giving Tara.
01:26:01 Leah
Context and understanding, whereas Buffy has to divulge this personal story, it's a completely different.
01:26:08 Tabby
I'm not blaming Buffy.
01:26:08 Leah
Yeah, I'm just trying to like, say.
01:26:10 Tabby
I'm just saying I'm just saying that, like, contextually wise, contextual, whatever.
01:26:16 Tabby
It's interesting.
01:26:18 Tabby
And it tells us.
01:26:19 Tabby
Suddenly we're Willow and Tara are at and tells us where Buffy and Riley are.
01:26:25 Sarah
At, you know, that's interesting because I was also thinking that, I mean, Willow is buffys's metaphorical spirit. So the fact that she's telling Tara could imply that buffys.
01:26:39 Sarah
Bear is willing to tell Riley she's not withholding from Riley because she's being deceptive, like we talked about.
01:26:43 Sarah
She truly is just too.
01:26:44 Sarah
Busy, but also the game doesn't know that Tara exists at this point, and yet Tara knows it's implied that Tara knows about the Slayer.
01:26:54 Sarah
Tara knows about all this other stuff, which?
01:26:55 Leah
I think is.
01:26:56 Leah
Actually, I didn't even think about that.
01:26:56 Sarah
Incredibly fascinating.
01:26:58 Leah
That's kind of like, really scummy, like, not to tell buddy that, like you're giving this random person.
01:27:04 Leah
So much information about Buffy specifically, and you're not even telling her, like, that's a little weird.
01:27:12 Leah
I'd be ****** about Buffy, and I did.
01:27:14 Leah
Just tell me, let.
01:27:15 Leah
Me know because I.
01:27:15 Sarah
It is odd.
01:27:16 Leah
Wanna know who knows about me?
01:27:17 Sarah
Oh, OK, so passion the nerd was talking about this scene with Giles and Xander and Spike, and he was saying that Giles, Xander, and Spike.
01:27:24 Sarah
These three characters have like nothing to do in this in this episode, and that's why this scene was written.
01:27:29 Sarah
It was to be like, hey, so Spike is still in this season.
01:27:33
We we still have.
01:27:34 Sarah
James Marsters as a main character, a season.
01:27:38 Tabby
Need so we.
01:27:38 Sarah
Gotta put him in this episode.
01:27:40 Sarah
UM, but he wrote about how this episode, what could have been just like or this scene.
01:27:46 Sarah
What could have just been a throwaway scene ended up being one of the funniest and most memorable scenes of this episode because of how Spike reacts and responds.
01:27:57
It's funny.
01:27:57 Tabby
Just he looks like so into the conversation.
01:28:00 Leah
Like ohh right.
01:28:00 Leah
Hmm, how about this?
01:28:02 Sarah
The most engaged to spend all season.
01:28:05 Tabby
He's like, I'll head out, find this girl, tell exactly where all of you are, and watch as she kills you.
01:28:11 Tabby
Like his, the way that his timing is so good and he's like they just like staring at him and he gets so annoyed.
01:28:18 Tabby
He's like, could any one of your damn little Scooby.
01:28:20 Tabby
Pull up at least ride to remember that I hate.
01:28:23 Tabby
You all so good.
01:28:27 Tabby
The next time you need money, we'll.
01:28:28 Sarah
See you again.
01:28:29 Sarah
Try to remember that.
01:28:31 Sarah
Again, two that them putting in Xander talking to Giles about how like you know, faith wants me, you know, we have a history and all this stuff.
01:28:38 Sarah
They did such a good job.
01:28:39 Sarah
With such a.
01:28:40 Sarah
Meaningless scene to also catch you up on where everybody is, not only in this season, but what happened in the past.
01:28:47 Sarah
I don't.
01:28:47 Sarah
Know it just.
01:28:48 Sarah
It was, it was masterfully done.
01:28:50 Sarah
It was very.
01:28:50 Sarah
Funny back in the.
01:28:52 Tabby
Hospital we see the same nurse walking outside and we see a helicopter with three men and full leather and briefcases.
01:29:01 Leah
OK, welcome to the nurse.
01:29:03 Leah
Say that this is Sunnydale Mountain Vegas.
01:29:06 Leah
Like how?
01:29:07 Leah
How was there just like helicopters and all this?
01:29:10 Leah
It's just flying into supposedly a small town.
01:29:13 Leah
Like with no one batting an eye.
01:29:15 Sarah
Into the hospital, of all places.
01:29:16 Tabby
And if this is like for.
01:29:18 Tabby
Called in for faith, we can kind of assume that it's probably like the Council.
01:29:22 Sarah
Right. Yeah, it's.
01:29:22 Tabby
Like it can't be anyone else at this.
01:29:25 Sarah
Yeah, it says three men get out.
01:29:26 Sarah
We don't know it yet, but they're the watchers.
01:29:28 Sarah
Council special.
01:29:29 Sarah
OPS, Collins, Weatherby and Smith.
01:29:31 Tabby
There's definitely three of them, so oh, oh, I thought it was a Collins Weatherby. Was someone's full name.
01:29:36 Tabby
Nope, it's right.
01:29:37 Tabby
And then just Smith.
01:29:42 Tabby
Uh, faith is back in the street.
01:29:44 Tabby
She sees a knife, so she hides in the alley and then a demon comes and he's like, hey, we have something from you from someone mutual.
01:29:50 Tabby
And I'm like girl, what if it was word of?
01:29:52 Leah
Mouth, you can't.
01:29:54 Sarah
Whoops. Guess we'll never know.
01:29:55 Tabby
You got lucky.
01:29:56 Tabby
This envelope, my goodness.
01:29:58 Tabby
And he seemed nice.
01:29:58 Tabby
I was like you trying to be sneaky or creepy.
01:30:01 Tabby
I was like Dang.
01:30:02 Tabby
This is another sky sky situation, like this poor guy Stevens guy.
01:30:06 Leah
Guys are.
01:30:07 Tabby
Or I peace guys guy.
01:30:08 Tabby
Just being given like these like little like odd jobs and they have like a whole apartment.
01:30:13 Tabby
And like, you know, the nice part of town, family chill.
01:30:15 Tabby
A life, a children waiting for them.
01:30:20 Tabby
I just was like, Dang, what if it was like a, you know, again, like, something that someone told him and he had to tell her rather.
01:30:26 Tabby
Than an envelope.
01:30:27 Sarah
Well, the funny part to me was like, you know, then you have the police car with their, like, their lights as they're.
01:30:31 Sarah
Looking for faith as.
01:30:32 Leah
And they didn't see the body.
01:30:33 Leah
They didn't see the body.
01:30:33 Tabby
Yeah, this was like hello.
01:30:37 Tabby
Classic Sunnydale classic.
01:30:39 Tabby
Sunnydale police man.
01:30:43 Tabby
There's like, OK, this is demon.
01:30:44 Tabby
They they move on and then we see.
01:30:47 Tabby
We're assuming that faith is like broken to like a video store.
01:30:53 Tabby
She puts the tape into a TV and this.
01:30:59 Tabby
Videotape is very interesting because I didn't pick up on the fact that he like.
01:31:07 Tabby
Yeah, it's like nice and sweet because he's like, oh, like, you know, there's those little moments of him being like, I'm so proud of you.
01:31:12 Tabby
Like like, but you're in a coma.
01:31:14 Tabby
Like maybe you won't wake up and the pessimist may think is thinking that maybe we didn't make it, yadda yadda yadda.
01:31:21 Tabby
But what I find?
01:31:22 Tabby
So interesting is that he's telling her that you're basically done for.
01:31:28 Tabby
There's no part of him that's giving her hope in this moment.
01:31:31 Tabby
I never picked that up until this.
01:31:33 Tabby
This rewatch, and this is the moment, and like I was doing a podcast.
01:31:35
MM.
01:31:37 Tabby
So I'm like my gosh, there something moments that I would have never noticed if I just kept binging the show.
01:31:43 Sarah
Uh, maybe I would, I don't know.
01:31:45 Tabby
Having to kind of look for these little spots, I just say he goes.
01:31:48 Tabby
He's like, he's like if I'm not here, your days are numbered and it's like as if he's, like, inserting this fear into faith through because of Buffy.
01:31:58 Tabby
And so it's like it's adding this whole other layer to her that's listening to somebody who cared for her and loved.
01:32:03 Tabby
Her and it's.
01:32:04 Tabby
Kind of affirming.
01:32:06 Tabby
Her fears when it comes to Buffy and people, the people that don't love her and like, accept her and he says at the end he's like, just because it's over for my faith doesn't mean she can't go.
01:32:14 Tabby
Out with a bang.
01:32:15 Tabby
It's like Dang, like you're like.
01:32:16 Tabby
Giving her like a mission now.
01:32:17 Tabby
Like why?
01:32:18 Tabby
Can't you just live, like, give her some?
01:32:19 Leah
Hope, but I think it also goes to show.
01:32:23 Leah
As much as the master.
01:32:25 Leah
Oh, my gosh.
01:32:26 Leah
The mayor did love thee.
01:32:30 Leah
He ultimately was a selfish man with a selfish goal, and he really saw faith as an add on to his plan.
01:32:38 Leah
She was a bonus.
01:32:39 Leah
She was he loved faith.
01:32:42 Leah
He loved having her at his side.
01:32:43 Leah
Ultimately, his plan came first.
01:32:45 Leah
And he couldn't see anything past his plan.
01:32:48 Leah
So this plan didn't succeed.
01:32:50 Leah
Then there's no way.
01:32:51 Leah
That faith had a life outside of that.
01:32:54 Sarah
Yeah, well, passion.
01:32:55 Sarah
The nerd brought up a really good point.
01:32:56 Sarah
He says.
01:32:57 Sarah
It's kind of wonderful how faith insertion this season fits well with all the other themes that season four has been toying around with family identity, belonging not totally surprising given.
01:33:06 Sarah
These puppies? Former shy.
01:33:07 Sarah
Self the mayor's proclamation that faith doesn't have much time left without him is a soft echo of Professor Walsh's statement that Bucky's main problem was the absence of a male role model.
01:33:19 Sarah
Riley is trying to figure out who he is without the initiative.
01:33:22 Sarah
Faith now needs to discover herself without the mayor, so it's like this idea that, like, he cares.
01:33:27 Sarah
For her.
01:33:27 Sarah
But he almost views her like a child.
01:33:29 Sarah
The mayor did.
01:33:30 Sarah
And like we talked about in season three and so this idea of like, oh, without a male role model without a strong father figure, you're just gonna flounder.
01:33:38 Sarah
You're not gonna have purpose, and that's kind of what Maggie was saying.
01:33:40 Sarah
And so like, once again, the show is reinforcing this idea of, like, faith doesn't have these crutches.
01:33:47 Sarah
These security blankets, even these people, to fall back on that she can point a finger and say you're the reason.
01:33:53 Sarah
That I am the way that I am.
01:33:54 Sarah
Who is faith without all these people?
01:33:56 Sarah
Passionate nerd even implies that he believes at the very end that faith was preparing to like die, that she was gonna like off Joyce while she went out.
01:34:06 Sarah
Well, because in her mind, she said, well, the mayor said that I don't have any other.
01:34:10 Sarah
Like, she didn't know like he was.
01:34:12 Sarah
I mean, we don't know, but he's implying that faith didn't know what that little box did that the mayor gave her, that it was some sort of, like, something that will take out Buffy as well as faith.
01:34:22 Sarah
She didn't know that it was going to be a body swap, which I mean, I don't know.
01:34:26 Sarah
I think that's an interesting take.
01:34:27 Sarah
UM, but yeah, I don't know.
01:34:29 Sarah
It adds a whole their light to this episode.
01:34:31 Sarah
And yeah, I think it's pretty consistent with the rest of the themes.
01:34:35 Tabby
UM, and then Riley's.
01:34:37 Tabby
Room Buffy is kind of.
01:34:38 Tabby
It's like.
01:34:39 Tabby
Very frustrated with Riley because he's kind of like making like, a a game of, like faith because he's like, oh, somebody that Buffy can't like.
01:34:47 Tabby
Master can't, like, beat, you know, he finds that like.
01:34:51 Tabby
Interesting, but yeah, I Andrea's a good word, Buffy said. Lecture him being like hey, like.
01:34:58 Tabby
This is serious like.
01:34:59 Tabby
She tried.
01:35:00 Tabby
Like, I'm scared.
01:35:00 Tabby
She's gonna go after people I love.
01:35:02 Tabby
Like she's like.
01:35:03 Tabby
Like scary issues like, you know, homicidal, you know, all these things, and you can see, like, he started to, like, understand a little bit more, but he's those people that I really feel like won't believe people until he sees it for his own eyes, which is so.
01:35:17 Tabby
Frustrated because I.
01:35:18 Sarah
I mean, at this point, he's been lied to by the people he trusts most.
01:35:22 Sarah
He's got some trust issues, but there's also the whole, like, there's something you're not telling me.
01:35:26 Sarah
And I'm like, oh, no, I know how TV shows go.
01:35:29 Sarah
I know how this goes.
01:35:30 Sarah
The fact that she's not telling him about Angel either, he's going to use it, yes, or something big is going to.
01:35:33 Tabby
He's going to use it as a point of insecurity.
01:35:39 Sarah
Happen to where?
01:35:39 Sarah
He's like you didn't tell me and.
01:35:41 Sarah
He's already struggling with trust issues like.
01:35:42 Tabby
Or it's going to slip out of someone else's mouth and then he's going to be like he.
01:35:44 Sarah
Oh, I wonder who?
01:35:45 Tabby
It's gonna, yeah.
01:35:46 Tabby
Didn't tell.
01:35:47 Sarah
Who do we know that it's really not great about keeping buffys's stuff to himself.
01:35:56 Tabby
Calling it now.
01:35:57 Sarah
Not that I haven't seen the show.
01:35:58 Sarah
Before or not?
01:35:59 Sarah
But I feel like.
01:35:59 Tabby
I don't know why it's consistent with this character, because I'm thinking if stuff happens Season 7 and I'm like, what is so consistent?
01:36:06 Tabby
Ohh, I want to sprinkle them every time something that happens, like it's not your permission so.
01:36:08 Tabby
We've been gotten there, yet we haven't gotten there yet.
01:36:11 Tabby
We got we got time as of now.
01:36:13 Tabby
It's all fine and dandy.
01:36:13 Tabby
Xander has been completely unproblematic this entire season.
01:36:17
Yeah, anyway.
01:36:19 Tabby
Not completely, but generally OK.
01:36:22 Tabby
So we flip from.
01:36:23 Tabby
She's saying she's scared she'll come after people she loves and too dumb and dumb.
01:36:27 Tabby
Buffys home.
01:36:28 Tabby
She opens up the door to Joyce and not.
01:36:28 Leah
Not choice, not choice.
01:36:31 Leah
Choice out.
01:36:32 Sarah
Also, hello, Christine Sutherland.
01:36:34 Sarah
Moving back or coming back from Spain, it's been since fear itself since we've seen her because of her being in a different country.
01:36:34 Tabby
I know we miss her.
01:36:40 Tabby
Well, no, the beginning of the episode, season 4.
01:36:43 Tabby
The freshman we saw her.
01:36:45 Sarah
Then we saw her in fear itself.
01:36:46 Sarah
The next episode or not the next episode.
01:36:48 Sarah
But a couple.
01:36:49 Sarah
Episodes later, the Halloween episode when she's making.
01:36:49 Tabby
Ohh you're right.
01:36:50 Tabby
Customer knows like.
01:36:51 Tabby
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's.
01:36:52 Sarah
The little Red Riding Hood.
01:36:53 Tabby
Last time.
01:36:54 Tabby
Yeah, yeah. But that was like, real brief in that episode. So and Joyce's room, poor Joyce is sitting on the bed while faith is like, looking through her lipsticks.
01:37:05 Tabby
Is kind of like rummaging through everything and she's like asking her.
01:37:09 Tabby
She's like, it's like, be honest.
01:37:11 Tabby
How do I look?
01:37:12 Tabby
And Joyce is so snarky.
01:37:13 Tabby
She's like, psychotic.
01:37:15 Tabby
Her delivery is Amy.
01:37:16 Leah
Saying you see where Buffy gets it from?
01:37:20 Tabby
Yeah, she's so quick.
01:37:20 Sarah
Joyce was savage.
01:37:22 Tabby
Like, yeah, she's.
01:37:23 Tabby
Like quick witted.
01:37:24 Tabby
Too, she's like.
01:37:25 Tabby
You're thinking you'll never get away with it.
01:37:27 Tabby
She's like, actually, I was thinking my daughter's.
01:37:29 Tabby
Gonna kill you soon.
01:37:30 Sarah
I was like, Dang, Joyce going to like.
01:37:32 Tabby
Even Joyce wants.
01:37:33 Leah
Faith to die.
01:37:37 Tabby
Oh my gosh, this part hurt though, like faith.
01:37:38 Tabby
Like pulls out like the letter from Buffy and it's like, oh, she hasn't been here in a while.
01:37:42 Tabby
She's gonna leave you here to.
01:37:44 Tabby
Die it goes all this whole.
01:37:45 Tabby
Long rant that like and she inserts herself in this.
01:37:48 Tabby
Like like conversation with Joyce.
01:37:51 Tabby
She's like she's moved on from people like us.
01:37:54 Tabby
Like she doesn't need us anymore.
01:37:55 Tabby
You've served a purpose in our life, but she's inserting herself in this conversation like, girl, you're you're showing, you're showing your card to your girl.
01:38:03 Tabby
Like, keep it close.
01:38:04 Tabby
To your chest.
01:38:05 Sarah
Well, according to Douglas Petrie, the subtext of this scene.
01:38:09 Sarah
Is that if Joyce were faithful, mother faith would not have neglected Joyce's protection as she accuses Buffy of doing so. There's this idea.
01:38:16 Sarah
There, that faith is just looking. You know how it is when you're when you're mad at someone, when someone's wrong, do you?
01:38:21 Sarah
You wanna go find someone that agrees with you, cause it validates your feelings and what you're going through, and that's what Faith's doing right here.
01:38:28 Leah
But I also think that faith is trying to prove the Buffy isn't.
01:38:33 Leah
What everyone thinks she is.
01:38:34 Leah
Oh, she's not a good daughter.
01:38:36 Leah
She's not a good player.
01:38:36 Tabby
It affirms her, yeah.
01:38:37 Leah
Not a good.
01:38:38 Leah
It's like her kind of bad Buffy isn't perfect.
01:38:40 Leah
Buffy isn't her that she does all these bad things.
01:38:42 Leah
MM yeah.
01:38:44 Tabby
It it like it affirms like faiths, actions in her head.
01:38:50 Tabby
If Buffy isn't this perfect superhero that everyone views her to be, then it's like her be like couple that I'm justified into, like, you know, whatever I.
01:38:58 Tabby
Do against Buffy.
01:38:59 Sarah
Well, all of season three was faith saying you like the darkness, Buffy you.
01:39:04 Sarah
You know she.
01:39:05 Sarah
She wants to drag her down to.
01:39:06 Tabby
Her level and Joyce is like, were you planning on slitting my throat anytime soon?
01:39:10 Tabby
Just like I don't want to hear your ***.
01:39:11 Tabby
Love her.
01:39:11 Tabby
Story let's go for real.
01:39:14 Tabby
And she's like.
01:39:14 Tabby
Oh, Buffy left you here to die.
01:39:17 Tabby
She's not coming for you.
01:39:18 Tabby
And then Buffy breaks through the window.
01:39:20 Sarah
This is amazing.
01:39:21
And she's like.
01:39:22 Tabby
Hi, mom.
01:39:23 Tabby
And she's like hi.
01:39:24 Tabby
And Joyce doesn't even seem like, like, shocked at all.
01:39:27 Tabby
Like it's it's almost like she just was waiting like she had, like, no part of her felt like Buffy was not coming.
01:39:32 Leah
She had so much faith in her, which is also the contract.
01:39:32 Tabby
And I love that they didn't feed.
01:39:33 Tabby
Into that, yeah.
01:39:36 Leah
Rest of the the master ohhh.
01:39:39 Leah
My gosh that that like she was telling faith pretty much like I don't think you're gonna make it.
01:39:45 Leah
I don't know what you're going to do after me.
01:39:47 Leah
Where's like Joyce is so.
01:39:48 Leah
Much faith in.
01:39:49 Leah
Buffy, just being like, she's gonna make it, she's going to save me like she's she's Buffy.
01:39:50
MMMM.
01:39:53 Tabby
Which is interesting because the mayor only saw faith as like a I'm a salvation to you.
01:40:00 Tabby
I'm helping you whereas like, if you really love somebody, it's like you want them to be happy and to be independent and to find themselves like.
01:40:09 Tabby
Because you love and you.
01:40:10 Tabby
Want them for like you want that for them.
01:40:13 Tabby
And so like the fact.
01:40:14 Tabby
That, like Joyce, is like understanding of Buffy as an individual.
01:40:19 Tabby
And like I'm sure that's gonna hurt, like as a parent to, like, not see your child for a while, but also understand the puffies like.
01:40:25 Tabby
Chuckling so much in her life.
01:40:27 Tabby
And so when Buffy does show up, it's not a sign of, like insecurity or like thinking about you and be there for her.
01:40:35 Tabby
It's like those things can coexist.
01:40:38 Tabby
You can be sad and like and and miss your daughter and wish you saw her more.
01:40:44 Tabby
But then also.
01:40:46 Tabby
Like, know who she is.
01:40:47 Tabby
At the same time.
01:40:48 Tabby
So it's like, you know, that she's gonna come when?
01:40:50 Tabby
Like when Joyce is needed, you know.
01:40:53 Sarah
Well, in an episode all about family.
01:40:56 Sarah
I mean you're Riley and Forrest talking about family, and now you have faith talking about family and the mayor and the dynamics between parents and siblings and all this stuff.
01:41:04 Sarah
It was so interesting that they had faith go after Joyce, the Buffys actual family that's around and.
01:41:10 Sarah
Like what you guys are saying?
01:41:12 Sarah
Joyce is completely trusting that Buffy will come through for her if she needs to, and also giving Buffy the space to go out and live her life all on her own without feeling the need to be like circle the wagons check in with me every few moments or whatever, you know?
01:41:28 Sarah
And so again, it goes back to both Joyce and Giles's parenting philosophy. That's very different from the mayor.
01:41:34 Sarah
And Maggie Walsh and all that other stuff.
01:41:37 Tabby
Yep. And then as they're fighting, falling down the stairs, hurting each other, Joyce calls 911 good for her.
01:41:44 Tabby
And like I just oh kilisa this could just stay because I've been missing so many of these fight scenes I was like, oh deprived.
01:41:51 Sarah
It was so interesting.
01:41:53 Sarah
It was so good.
01:41:53 Tabby
I've been so deprived of good fight scenes like I miss it.
01:41:55 Leah
No, I'm just so sick of stupid weapons like, oh, my gosh, I really am because there's so much of this season.
01:41:59 Sarah
Yes, hand to hand fighting.
01:42:03 Leah
So much of this season has been like weapons and machinery and all that because it's focusing on the mechanics of the initiative.
01:42:10 Leah
It's like I don't care.
01:42:12 Leah
I wanna see well crafted fight scenes.
01:42:16 Tabby
And it's so well done.
01:42:18 Tabby
Like they're they're just so creative like that.
01:42:20 Tabby
When the when Faith brings out the door and mother Buffy and she breaks her, I was like.
01:42:23 Sarah
Being cheap, yeah.
01:42:26 Sarah
Yeah, they're so interesting and so brutal, too.
01:42:29 Sarah
I love watching it.
01:42:32 Tabby
And a lot of it you could tell is like Eliza and Sarah Michelle Gellar.
01:42:36 Tabby
Like, you could tell, like sometimes it's like it's back and forth.
01:42:41 Tabby
But I was like, oh, like you could tell they did a lot of practice with a lot of these sense too, because they're also talking throughout it.
01:42:46 Tabby
So they're like, slam each other up against the walls, and they're talking about like, oh, like, going for the boyfriend again.
01:42:51 Tabby
That's tired, you know, like.
01:42:52 Tabby
Talking about Riley.
01:42:53 Tabby
And then Angel and all that sort of stuff.
01:42:57 Tabby
And then, uh, we kind of as the last jump back we see in Giles's house that the Council or the guys or whatever were Smith and the other dude's house.
01:43:08 Tabby
Wonder if they want Giles.
01:43:09 Tabby
I wonder if he would accept being a watcher again and then back at Buffys House we hear sirens.
01:43:15 Tabby
Sirens come and then.
01:43:16 Tabby
Faith takes out the gadget.
01:43:18 Tabby
Grabs Buffys hand as she is about to swing, and then some light flashes.
01:43:25 Tabby
Then she takes it off her hand.
01:43:28 Tabby
Breaks it on the floor and then Buffy knocks out faith.
01:43:33 Tabby
Joyce comes down the stairs and it's like, oh, like, are you OK?
01:43:38 Tabby
But he's like.
01:43:39 Tabby
She's their problem.
01:43:39 Tabby
Now Joyce is like you sure you're OK.
01:43:42 Tabby
And then with an ominous look, Buffy goes 5 by 5.
01:43:47 Sarah
It has like this weird.
01:43:49 Sarah
Like non blinking psychopathic look down.
01:43:53 Sarah
We're like, wait, what?
01:43:55 Sarah
Yeah, to be continued.
01:43:59 Leah
Ah, so good then.
01:44:00 Sarah
Such a good episode.
01:44:01 Sarah
I mean, as I said before, I typically don't like part ones because they are just a lot of setup, but this had just some great dialogue, some great foreshadowing.
01:44:10 Sarah
You can tell it's setting up a lot of stuff, but it's still like there's a lot of payoff.
01:44:14 Sarah
It's obviously a body swapping episode, which.
01:44:17 Leah
And was overall just a good stairwell episode.
01:44:20 Sarah
It's so good. So so.
01:44:22 Sarah
So yeah, I'm.
01:44:24 Sarah
I'm like, I'm like, ready to record the next one.
01:44:26 Sarah
I need to go watch and everything.
01:44:27 Tabby
Oh, I can't wait for the next few episodes.
01:44:30 Leah
OK.
01:44:32 Sarah
Alright guys, that was season four, episode 15, this year's girl.
01:44:38 Sarah
What do you guys think of the return of faith?
01:44:40 Sarah
Did you like it was a good refresher.
01:44:42 Sarah
Are you excited for the next couple of episodes and the arc that's to come?
01:44:46 Sarah
We are, let us know your thoughts.
01:44:48 Sarah
As always, guys, you can find us on Instagram on TikTok on Tumblr becoming Buffy podcast, and you can e-mail us at
[email protected] and yeah, we will see you guys next time for who are you? Can't wait until then, guys.